Ahhh yet another idea strikes me!!!!

[jamusta]

Im not sure if this has been brought up before, but I want to talk about suicide jabo nerds.... It has been brought up in the "something great" thread about penalties for suicide bombers and jabo's. Those that go straight down and follow their bombs into the intended targets. Is it possible to deduct perks for those that do this? Say like 5 perks charged if you auger a few seconds after you release bombs. Not if you are shot down but auger. I know I lose a wing here and there to ack while diving to target which is expected.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by jamusta
Im not sure if this has been brought up before, but I want to talk about suicide jabo nerds.... It has been brought up in the "something great" thread about penalties for suicide bombers and jabo's. Those that go straight down and follow their bombs into the intended targets. Is it possible to deduct perks for those that do this? Say like 5 perks charged if you auger a few seconds after you release bombs. Not if you are shot down but auger. I know I lose a wing here and there to ack while diving to target which is expected.

No problem except that we run a mission we call "Clown Cars".  We all grab a ki-61, and go attack a CV.  We dive to 500 mph or so, drop, and strike the CV deck.  It's our tribute to all those 18-year-old Japanese kids who died doing the same thing in WW2.

Oh, yeah...we do type "banzai" on Ch 200 before tipping in...

[RacrX]

That would penalize a lot of newbies who do it unintentionally tho....

[streetstang]

Jam, I see what your trying to do, and as much as I admire what you're trying here it just wont work.

You can't make people care and you can't entice them into using their brains.

Regardless of the "rewards" felt when a great fight is won, or a mission accomplished, some just do not care for them.

Your always going to have people who suicide bomb, always going to have dive bombing 17's and alike, there will always be runners and HO'ers. Its the nature of the game. And there will always be the select few who value a dog fight and value the knowledge and graditude brought forth through practicing ACM.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by RacrX
That would penalize a lot of newbies who do it unintentionally tho....

That was my point in the 'something great' thread. Is there a way to determine that the plane has compressed and there is no way out of the dive. Thing is I've seen suicides that were no way a compression the angle is to shallow. As far as the newbies, we all were at one time and some kinda penalty, loss of perks, not letting them carry ord on their next sortie or something like that would force them to learn how to jabo. Right now they get all the payoff and none of the risk.

Oh, another thought, if you attempted to pull out of the dive and missed the target with your plane then that would not count. If you deliberatly dove into the target with no attempt to change your heading them yes, you get penalized!

Oh and another thing, you should also get this:

SYSTEM:{insert gameID} Is a scumbag suicide dweeb!

Or something a bit more PC. I couldn't think of anything myself.

[dedalos]

I kind of think the pork and auger thing is not as real as we would like to think.  Sure some people end up hitting the grownd but I am sure it is not intentional.  I can't see one reason to not pull back on the stick.  Come to think of it, I don;t see it happen that often.  I think it followes the same exageration about diving buffs.  2.5 years in the game and I have seen it twice maybe???  I am sure it happens but I don;t think it is that often as we like to tell ourselfs

[rshubert]

Originally posted by streetstang
Jam, I see what your trying to do, and as much as I admire what you're trying here it just wont work.

You can't make people care and you can't entice them into using their brains.

Regardless of the "rewards" felt when a great fight is won, or a mission accomplished, some just do not care for them.

Your always going to have people who suicide bomb, always going to have dive bombing 17's and alike, there will always be runners and HO'ers. Its the nature of the game. And there will always be the select few who value a dog fight and value the knowledge and graditude brought forth through practicing ACM.

Morph, I love ya man, but...

You're just going to have to realize that both sides of this argument can't be reduced to "I'm right, you're wrong".  There really are different ways of looking at it.  Not right, not wrong, just different.  If we could take the absolutist value judgements out of the arguments, there might be progress.  As it is, you are building a fence.

I hate fences, and try to tear them down, and love to yell "neener-neener" at the guys who build them.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rshubert
No problem except that we run a mission we call "Clown Cars".  We all grab a ki-61, and go attack a CV.  We dive to 500 mph or so, drop, and strike the CV deck.  It's our tribute to all those 18-year-old Japanese kids who died doing the same thing in WW2.

Oh, yeah...we do type "banzai" on Ch 200 before tipping in...

   How appropriate.

[Aubrey]

I am newbie

I am trying to JABO and ground strafe, I am getting better, but I still auger sometimes.  I do not have perks anyway so IF they are taken it does not matter.  So I cannot fly the Jet bomber

I have seen a lot of posts about making penalties for this and that. In the last game I played folks wanted those kind of things also.

Beware the law of unintended consequences when changing the rules. basiically the player base needs to police themselves. Peer pressure will do more to straighten things out than rules. If you do not like they way guys fly then do not fly with them. Do not fly against them either.


If they attack the base you are at go to another, it is not like there are not any others  and if they up and do lame stuff at the base you are attacking, then attack another.  Pretty soon they will get bored attacking bases with no fight or flying around bases with no attackers. Believe me it works.  We use to just stop fighting the guys who were lame and and just let them shoot us down. They got bored real quick.  

Maybe someone could post a list of the lame stuff  ( with explinations) for us new guys.  A lot new guys will do it cause they see vets do it. If you do not call them on it then they think it is buisness as usual.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by dedalos
I kind of think the pork and auger thing is not as real as we would like to think.  Sure some people end up hitting the grownd but I am sure it is not intentional.  I can't see one reason to not pull back on the stick.  Come to think of it, I don;t see it happen that often.  I think it followes the same exageration about diving buffs.  2.5 years in the game and I have seen it twice maybe???  I am sure it happens but I don;t think it is that often as we like to tell ourselfs

Well, I'm only in my 3rd months and I've seen it several times. I've seen the radar tower hit from a 20 degree angle. Your telling me that's just a screw up? Could be, maybe I'm to suspicious, but I didn't see any attempt to miss the thing.

I think one of the main issues we have is that death has no pain here. If there was some penalty for crashing your plane into ground targets (CV's too) then the newbies would spend a bit more time learning how to do it instead of just crashing and upping a new plane.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Jackal1
How appropriate.

Well, we're doing it for the jollies.  We get a big kick out of it.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by streetstang
Jam, I see what your trying to do, and as much as I admire what you're trying here it just wont work.

You can't make people care and you can't entice them into using their brains.

Regardless of the "rewards" felt when a great fight is won, or a mission accomplished, some just do not care for them.

Your always going to have people who suicide bomb, always going to have dive bombing 17's and alike, there will always be runners and HO'ers. Its the nature of the game. And there will always be the select few who value a dog fight and value the knowledge and graditude brought forth through practicing ACM.

The runners, HOers, dive bombing 17's don't bother me anywhere near as much as these guys do.

You are right reward is a poor insentive but penalty is a great insentive.  I think it would make people more careful while dive bombing. I just don't know if the game could be made to do this.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by rshubert
Well, we're doing it for the jollies.  We get a big kick out of it.

 No doubt.  Do you have to take meds when ya watch the grass grow to keep from overexerting yourself?

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by Aubrey
I am newbie

I am trying to JABO and ground strafe, I am getting better, but I still auger sometimes.  I do not have perks anyway so IF they are taken it does not matter.  So I cannot fly the Jet bomber

I have seen a lot of posts about making penalties for this and that. In the last game I played folks wanted those kind of things also.

Beware the law of unintended consequences when changing the rules. basiically the player base needs to police themselves. Peer pressure will do more to straighten things out than rules. If you do not like they way guys fly then do not fly with them. Do not fly against them either.


If they attack the base you are at go to another, it is not like there are not any others  and if they up and do lame stuff at the base you are attacking, then attack another.  Pretty soon they will get bored attacking bases with no fight or flying around bases with no attackers. Believe me it works.  We use to just stop fighting the guys who were lame and and just let them shoot us down. They got bored real quick.  

Maybe someone could post a list of the lame stuff  ( with explinations) for us new guys.  A lot new guys will do it cause they see vets do it. If you do not call them on it then they think it is buisness as usual.

As one who complains about this I wouldn't want a change made for change sake. It would have to be something the community feels strongly about. We have seen the result of change already for good and ill.

Thing is if they wanted to shoot at us we wouldn't be complaning.
It's the guy who dives in at 500 MPH, fires a full savlo of rockets into the VH and then crashes his plane into the building that annoys us.

I'm sure the lame stuff has been posted here numerous times.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Well, I'm only in my 3rd months and I've seen it several times. I've seen the radar tower hit from a 20 degree angle. Your telling me that's just a screw up? Could be, maybe I'm to suspicious, but I didn't see any attempt to miss the thing.

I think one of the main issues we have is that death has no pain here. If there was some penalty for crashing your plane into ground targets (CV's too) then the newbies would spend a bit more time learning how to do it instead of just crashing and upping a new plane.

He he. Several times.  Thats not enough to make it a problem that needs to be fixed.  Crashing your plane on a target does not hurt the target.  So, why would they do it on purpose?  What if they hit the target and the clime out and away?  Is it OK then?  The resul is the same.  Oh, wait, we will call them run dweebs then.  The problem is not that they augered.  The problem is that you (not personaly  you) did not get a chance to kill them cause you were not fast enough, not high enough, or not at the right place.  Its all about the kill message.

I hit the ground dog fihting more than they do.  Should I be penalized also?