how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total f - up

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash
A buncha years living in NYC then criss-crossing the States for a coupla years - every single state - the difference I witnessed between the US and Canada was basically zilch.

well, he said that if you walk into an emergency room, you are going to be there for a few hours waiting.

He also whipped out all of his id cards and laughed......he had about 8 different Canadian ID cards, licence, fishing, hunting, and lot's I couldn't remember.

He said that taxes are incredible there. He noted the tax on gas, with stickers marked at the pump showing percentage of tax.

He said he takes adavantage of the system too. He has a 6th kid on the way, and gets paid $500.00 for having a kid.

He said basically it's hard to get ahead in Canada compaired to the US.

[JB88]

Originally posted by patrone
As this topic really is about "the total mess in Iraq".
Coming to soon be the "free" elections and soon to be a "proper" Goverment.
If asked to leave, by the Iraq elected Goverment: USA has to leave according to UN resulotion. The question I ask: Would they do it?

if we are honorable...we will.

but lets look at it strategically shall we?

(holds up map of mid east)

see you we have them flanked right there on the west and on the east, and then right up the center?

if we are honorable, we will.

[JB88]

Originally posted by RedTop
Well JB88....your dream/idea is commendable. Would be a great thing if that were life.

Alas...life isnt like that. Nor do I think it will ever be or even come close to being.

There are way to many other failing of the human race to ever let the world get along. To be able to discuss opinions and to actually see the truth.

The "truth" is....that there is no truth most times...only opinions that become reality. Thus , becomeing what others think of as the truth. (did I just say that?)  

i appreciate that redtop.  

and i would essentially argue with that logic if it meant that it was the compromise at the end of the opinions that resulted in the best solution.

dissent matters.  if only as a check to extremism.

so long as we can avoid extremism...

[patrone]

Originally posted by RedTop
"Proper" "Free" in quotes...I sense you don't belive in em. Your fishing for an argument.

Well as the Election has not been held yet and not been monitored, its outcome might be "weighted". But, that is still left to see. I actully hope for the best. But if only 20% are going to vote, because of security issues, I wouldnt call the outcome "Free" or "proper", sorry

I am only fishing for thoughts about the issue "USA is asked to leave Iraq by leagally elected Goverment", Again I ask, would USA complie with the UN resulotion?

[JB88]

id be interested to know how that was stated in regards to germany and japan.

how it has panned out.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by patrone
I am only fishing for thoughts about the issue "USA is asked to leave Iraq by leagally elected Goverment", Again I ask, would USA complie with the UN resulotion?

Yes, we would leave. But I'll tell you that there is no way they would ask us to leave unless they knew they could handle the security of their country.

My guess is that we will be there for at least another 2 years.

[Nash]

Originally posted by NUKE
He said basically it's hard to get ahead in Canada compaired to the US.

That may be true. I've seen some complete nutjobs here post pictures of their houses and there's no possible way that they would ever in a million years be able to be in the same station here as there.

But then, I dunno.... In Canada we buy our houses. Seems more like in the US the Chinese or whoever is footing your bill.

Enjoy.

[Crumpp]

would disagree that we are the only free space in the world. i

Please point out were I say that we are the only free space.  Do not put words in my mouth or twist my meaning please.

america suffers from narcissism.

Yes we do.  I work overseas for most of the year.  This is our biggest problem.  We think everyone is an American waiting to come out.  Always has been and always will be an American trait.  Recognize it and avoid it when overseas.  I fail to see your point on this other than to suggest America needs a humbling and should be defeated in Iraq??!?

my concern in the post 9/11 world is that much like the soviets, we have begun to suspect our own people of dissent.

False.  I think you should educate yourself on the recent laws that have been passed.  Most specifically the Patriot act.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

You will see for the most part, worries about infringement on personal freedom are unwarranted.  Nevertheless the US legal system is dealing with the new laws and amending them as needed to preserve that personal freedom.

Nash,

Most of the Western world has pretty much he same choices and freedoms today, more or less, Hence the Western Europe.  Your perception of "chest pounding" is undeserved.

Even though the United States has many problems, I would say you have never traveled outside of the US or Western Europe if you do not recognize we are head and shoulders above most of the countries on this planet when it comes to personal freedoms.

Now if you are taking the fact I specifically did not mention Canada as a personal affront, my apologies.

Crumpp

[RedTop]

Originally posted by JB88
i appreciate that redtop.  

and i would essentially argue with that logic if it meant that it was the compromise at the end of the opinions that resulted in the best solution.

dissent matters.  if only as a check to extremism.

so long as we can avoid extremism...

agreed...to avoid extremism.

unfortunatley...extremism is reality someplaces. And I would think that that extremism was born of opinions of dissent that was compromised on.

[Elfie]

Originally posted by patrone
Well as the Election has not been held yet and not been monitored, its outcome might be "weighted". But, that is still left to see. I actully hope for the best. But if only 20% are going to vote, because of security issues, I wouldnt call the outcome "Free" or "proper", sorry

I am only fishing for thoughts about the issue "USA is asked to leave Iraq by leagally elected Goverment", Again I ask, would USA complie with the UN resulotion?

If we were asked to leave by the elected Iraqi gov't, I have no doubts that we would.

You say only 20% of the population is going to be able to vote.....I thought that 14 out of 18 provinces could vote, not the other way around....did I misinterpret that?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash
That may be true. I've seen some complete nutjobs here post pictures of their houses and there's no possible way that they would ever in a million years be able to be in the same station here as there.

But then, I dunno.... In Canada we buy our houses. Seems more like in the US the Chinese or whoever is footing your bill.

Enjoy.

Lol, you don't mean that.

My friends parents, where he was staying, live in a huge million dollar house in a huge neighborhood of the same. Absolutley beautiful. He said you would never see a neiborhood like that in Canada......nor the architecture, that he's seen.

But America is a country were almost anyone can make that kind of living if they try.

I own two houses myself......I don't feel that the f**ing Chinese are bankrolling it.

The country is the way it is because we are not socialist. We do not tax business into the ground.

[Nash]

Originally posted by Crumpp
Nash,

Most of the Western world has pretty mutch he same choices and freedoms today, more or less, Hence the Western Europe.  Your perception of "chest pounding" is undeserved.

Ya really think?

What is the ratio of the use of the word "freedom" by Americans as compared to all those other just-as-free countries?

[patrone]

Originally posted by Elfie
did I misinterpret that?

Yes you did, I said "If". The outcome or the actull voting figures has not been issued yet and we will just have to wait and see.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Nash
Ya really think?

What is the ratio of the use of the word "freedom" by Americans as compared to all those other just-as-free countries?

The few poeple, like patrone and a couple others who make it a point to rail against the US every chance they get are the reason for 90% of that reaction from Americans.

I have nothing against anyone here or there countries.....but when people try to make my country out as some menace to the world, hellbent on evil and destruction......I get upset....do not like that at all.

[patrone]

My second thought about this election and the resultion is: This would give USA a very good oppertunity to leave, without being considered as "losers".

My prediction since a while back is : Usa is out of Iraq before the end of March 2005.

Edit,: And UN to uphold security, to straight out the whole mess