Author Topic: Gunnery again............ (Read 2014 times)

Tilt · « **on:** February 03, 2005, 06:24:19 AM »

I know I really suck at gunnery....but I am becoming alarmed at how bad I really suck.......... I mean I am really really bad, awfull terrible..................

Glued to the 6 of a 190/typhoon/109 (200 to 400) I will regularly use more than half a clip........ for a few pings (and no I do not spray it about ............I set the shot and take it)

attacking fairly static buffs I am ripped to shreads whilst apparantly failing to hit something the size of a Lancaster..........

yet tracking an incoming fighter from the tail gun of a b24 i will apparantly fire at any point the fighter is no at.................

The majority of my pitifully few succesfull kills are now coming from snap shots or excessive leads and the element of luck embodied in these gives me to think that if this continues then I waste my time trying to saddle.

Looking at the HO thread reminds me that I never seem to win one.............. reviewing films of when it happens shows my sights floating around the target never on it.............. particularly in the vertical........... whether I am nose up or nose down.

Yet I bring up /.target and the holes appear exactly where I expect them.

I check my js inputs and no I am not flying side ways

It would be neat if I could fix /.target to a drone or an opponent when reviewing a film so I can see better my error.................. but then I suppose that would just depress me.............

To cap it all last night I actually flew into my opponent (from his 6) three times before actually getting a proper shot..................

I have been playing this stuff since 96 an I really really suck..........

terrible........

awful..............

cya all up there:)

mipoikel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2005, 06:51:12 AM »

Good to hear that!

Swoop · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:07:51 AM »

Use the Force.

I do.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:12:10 AM »

The dead on six shot is really really hard.

Ive basicly stopped shooting that shot.

Though I do saddle up. But I saddle up and wait for em to turn. Then I shoot the lead turn shots which are imho much easier.

Since I started doing this my nr bullets/kill has gone down drastically.

What did as well was watch Leviathn´s (sp?) films. His gunnery like the rest of his flying is amazing and from that I saw that I didnt lead enough. His films showed me very well how to lead the different shots. Very helpfull.

Aim has always been my weakness as a player in all games Ive played be it sapce sims, flight sims or fpses. Ive got really bad hand eye coordination and I know about it so Ive always worked very hard on other aspects of my gaming to become a good player. But to my amazement gunnery has lately been one of the strongest sides of my flying.

Why?

Because aim in AH isnt twitch hand to eye coordination like in other type of games. Aim is about getting in the right position for your shot, its about flying not twitch reaction.

Tex.

Saintaw · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:29:38 AM »

Tilt, It's good to know I am not the only one in this situation

I often miss with the bullets at 200 yds... or less.

214thCavalier · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:45:58 AM »

Does the P51 now have a lead computing sight ?
Don't fly it but believe it does have it now, so may be worth spending some time in it.

Ghosth · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:49:48 AM »

Wecome to the club tilt.

I've been in the exact same place time & time again myself. And I'm a trainer, I TEACH gunnery!

Part of what helps me is when I get to where I'm having trouble hitting I go back & practise.

Yes offline vs drones, TA vs new guys, anything and anywhere but the main where the pressure is on.

Connect and computer speed do have a large inpact. You may want to think about an upgrade esp in the CPU.

Also I'd say tex is right on the money.
Saddle up, get him to burn his E, wait for a good shot, but preferably one that has him showing more than just the knife edge.

Get close, then get closer yet.
A shot thats very difficult at 350 gets much easier at 150, but you can get too close also. If your inside the 100 yard distance any moves he makes makes it harder to stay in sync with him.

Last, concentratrating too much on saving ammo always screws me up.
I end up without both the ammo and the kill.

When it gets really bad for me I start flying the Yak9T. I have 32 rounds if I use them wisely I can get 3 kill sorties in it vs spits & nik's. (works wonders on bombers also)

But it forces me to make every single shell count. It has to be the best shot I can get or its more than likely wasted.

If there is anything I can do to help give me a yell.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2005, 07:58:03 AM »

Yeah, what Tilt said. Goes double for me. And it has gotten worse, again. I think my timing is off as well. I can't get setup for shots anywhere near as well as I once did. You'd think flying the P-38 90% of the time with center mounted guns I'd get a decent hit percentage, especially since I shoot well in real life. NOT!

I think the difficulty in marksmanship and in setting up a shot is why we see people gravitating to the cannon birds. A few pings with 4-6 50 BMG's or a few .303's doesn't do enough damage, and even adding the 20MM to the four 50's on the P-38 doesn't help me much (I get LOTS of assists). But a few pings with 4 20MM's and it's all over.

I'm going to break down and buy a new video card despite my plan to replace the whole rig this fall, just so I can get better video performance with more detail so maybe I can see how to shoot better. I'm thinking about going from my current 17" monitor to at least 19", and 21" if I get a good deal on a refurb (I bought the 17" refurb when AW would no longer support 800x640, that's how long I keep my stuff).

I've reached the point where I won't engage bombers unless I get a perfect setup and I have more than enough speed. I can light them up like a pinball machine from nose totail or from wingtip to wingtip, and leave them barely smoking, while in two or three pings I'm suffering a pilot wound and multiple leaks, if I'm not killed instantly. I get one or two pings on a pass and I'm gone, if I survive I won't go back.

I don't engage fighters as much or as aggressively now unless I have enough advantage where I can be practicaly assured of getting good hits without them having a prayer of getting their guns on me. Simply because I can't hit them hard enough the first time to kill them. It's just too frustrating to light them up good two or three times (I mean seeing hit sprites that cover them up) and have them eventually kill me with a quick burst, or being slow enough that anyone who gets a quick burst gets an easy kill.

humble · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:18:27 AM »

Other than the gifted few....the other 98% of us are in the same boat....er plane. I've noticed that the more I stay with 1 ride the better my gunnery gets. Also since I tend to fly the Ki-61 alot I've developed the "tap and go" basically I just tap the trigger when it feels right and keep flying. It conserves ammo and avoids the "start shooting/stop flying" problem. I suprise my self in spurts...yesterday mixed in with all the dying I had my one good sortie for the month. Got 8 pelts in the Ki on one ammo load (all air to air)...thats 30 rds of 20mm/kill. Normally I can get 2-4 a clip (on those rare occasions I live). Going to the Levi clips what I noticed is how often he hits on the 1st burst....to a small degree I think thats learnable if you tap away vs "walking" the rounds to the target.

TexMurphy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:26:31 AM »

@Tilt & Others.

I got to remember one thing....

In the original IL-2 during the tutorial missions the "instructor" says something very very very true.

For a noob pilot when leading shots always DOUBLE your lead.

The lead you think is adequate x2 is much closer to the true lead then what you originaly thought.

The most common "miss" in a lead turn shot is undershooting not overshooting.

This is what I learned most from watching films of AH Aces.

For example I always aimed a little infront of the enemy in a 200d lead turn shot. Almost in my sight but not quite.

Then I watched the movies and realized the Aces have the enemy "under their nose" in 200d lead shots where he is turning relativly sharply. This is about x2 the lead I had..

@Conserving Ammo

Ghosth mentioned something really important.

Conserve ammo but dont conserve it. This might sound very strange but thats exactly what you have to do.

Dont spray and pray. Dont take bad shots. But when you shoot lay into him till he dies. When you have the good shot not shooting enough is a waste of all the efforts you went through to get into that position.

The reason to not take bad shots is not only tied to conserving ammo but even more to conserving E and retaining position.

A bad shot is when you have to "force" your plane into the shot, when you have to pull nose high or low to be able to hit. By forcing your plane you bleed energy like a mad man so you are likely to stall after the shot. By forcing your plane you loose controll of your position. Loosing position will often allow the enemy to gain an advantage on you and you eventually die.

Another reason on Cannon planes is that the recoil it self can throw you out of position and bleed energy off your plane.

Tex.

CavemanJ · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:31:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 214thCavalier
Does the P51 now have a lead computing sight ?
Don't fly it but believe it does have it now, so may be worth spending some time in it.

umm... no...

and I dinnae the board servers would survive the firestorm of whines if the pony was ever given its LCS... dinnae think we'll ever see it.

Zanth · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:37:56 AM »

I wish a computing sight was turned on somewhere like training arena so we players could see what we are doing wrong. I know it would be a help to me.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:45:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Zanth
I wish a computing sight was turned on somewhere like training arena so we players could see what we are doing wrong. I know it would be a help to me.

I thought it was, at least at one time. Guess I was misinformed.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:51:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Wecome to the club tilt.

I've been in the exact same place time & time again myself. And I'm a trainer, I TEACH gunnery!

Connect and computer speed do have a large inpact. You may want to think about an upgrade esp in the CPU.

So, when I was thinking that maybe my already poor gunnery got even worse with the new version (2.02) because my video performance dropped, I might have been on to something? And I was also possibly on the right track thinking that the heavier server loading and the resulting connectivity issues (not to mention the issues HTC says they have with at least part of their ISP) might be making my problems worse? I ain't lookin for excuses, I'm lookin for somethin I can fix, or at least compensate for, whether it's me, my computer, or my connection to HTC. It's something to look at, and think about, anyway.

dedalos · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2005, 08:59:16 AM »

And yet, some guy in a spit can hit you at d800 and send you a message about how lucky you are that did not go down.

Last night I made lame attempt to vulch an A6M. He was already in the air so he broke really hard. I tried to follow but at that speed it was inpossible. Well, I pulled the trigher anyway and saw the tracers clearly miss by a lot. Not a single ping on my screen. Frindly gets him a few secs latter and I get the kill. Something is not right IMO. I can hit 90 degrees under my nose but not from 6.