Question to Finns

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Staga
Siaf; I know also Russians who are well aware of Soviet Union/Russian propaganda and how surrealistic (her description) and abnormal nation S-U was.

USSR was "surrealistic" and "abnormal" for Westen people who never lived here. I say that it was simply different and that's all. Not better or worse. Different. Mao said: "Let hundreed flowers blossom"

Originally posted by Staga
I'm trying to get a 12 month Visa; I should visit Chelyabinsk aka "Tankograd" and maybe Moscow this spring/ summer, possible Nizhniy Novgorod too if I have time.

If you'll be in Moscow - please, drop me a line. I'll be honored to talk to you and maybe drink something Moscow is an interesting city

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Toad
I'm sure if you just clear up the misunderstanding with the FBI you'll be able to get a visa.

Make a post when you do... I'll send you my phone number. You can come over and I'll tell you tales of Capitalist Reconnaissance.

Did I ever mention the time I buzzed Red Square in an RC-135U?

No?

I don't plan to go to the US in foreseeable future anyway Frankly speaking - I was not mentioned personally in FBI papers, and the verdict of Russian cyber-police was "no criminal act revealed"... I'll have more problems with my education as a weapon engineer, according to current American visa policy... I plan to go to Australia this year to visit my Mother, but I have no important things to do in the US.

If you'll be in European Russia or Urals - I hope to meet you in RL and tell you how we tracked your RC-135 from our S-200 position in Orevo, station "85th kilometer" on Savelovo railway line . Drinks are on me

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I've seen a couple old soviet films, which were not propaganda directly. They don't display that stuff here in the west you know. However I have seen a few documents that have touched the issue. Enough to realize what you've been subjected to.

So, they didn't and don't display Soviet movies in the US. We saw many American films here in 70s-80s. Now tell me, who's society was more open?

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Books.. russian yes, soviet - no interest whatsoever. It's very hard to find one to begin with.

Shall I give you links at Amazon for Soviet books worth reading?

It's funny. I can give you a looong list of English-speaking writers that I read since my childhood, you boast that you didn't read any Soviet authors and tell me that USSR was a closed society? Maybe the problem is in your propaganda agenda and, that is IMHO much worse - in your own head?...

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
But hey, you're like an open book. You verify all my suspicions to the
maximum. I used to wonder what my estonian friend meant when he said 'a typical russian' but I'm getting a faint clue now.

I am in no way a "typical Russian". I try to avoid being a "typical citizen" who is fed by propaganda, and always try to develop my own opinion. Blind faith is not for me. For example, I developed my view on the beginning of WWII from Western sources. So it goes.

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
And btw. in the Rambo issue we agree Boroda. During the cold war many movies were made with the same format. Just before Gulf1 there were a multitude of low budget movies which surprisingly enough featured commando strikes to middle east.

In USSR showing American servicemen in a way Soviet soldiers were pictured in Rambo-II and III was impossible. The only Soviet film that shows fighting between Soviet marines (sea infantry) and American soldiers is "Solo Voyage", where Soviet recon group disables an American missile base in Pacific after American commander goes mad and wants to launch missiles on Soviet task-force to start a nuclear war. Soviet marines leave an island 10 minutes before it's bombed from B-52s It's a nice action film. BTW, one American sailor fights together with our marines.

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
So you don't have a monopoly on propaganda Boroda. But you TRY HARD.

Me? I try hard? I only try to develop an approach based on common sence, not on what "everyone knows".

My favourite quote from Jethro Tull's  "Thik as a Brick": "I may make you feel but I can't make you think."[/i]

[Siaf__csf]

So, they didn't and don't display Soviet movies in the US. We saw many American films here in 70s-80s. Now tell me, who's society was more open?

I wouldn't know about that really since I've never been on the US soil in my life.

The biggest reason why the soviet movies weren't displayed anywhere was that your movie industry couldn't produce entertaining titles that would have been financially succesful. Simple as that.

I recall only one movie label, 'stalker.' I watched it partly. I was amazed that you could produce science fiction in the SU although the set was an old junkyard. The movie had such a depressive tone to it that I couldn't watch it through. Every image reflected poverty somehow.

Thanks for your offer on the books but I'm way too busy to read one these days. I'm already spending too much time posting this crap here, not to mention to concentrate on a book.

I can't read a book now and then, when I start one I must read it intensively through.

I don't understand why you try to convince me that your country (during the SU) was something else than it was. You must realize that first of all I know a couple russians. That aside, I've made a roadtrip through one corner of your country so I've seen things with my own eyes.

Then there are the estonians who used to live under the iron curtain. I can tell you that they weren't happy at all of your so called 'friendly occupation.' Or maybe there was some other reason why the first thing they did was to set strict laws that made it hard for any indigenous russian to gain citizenship in the independent estonia.

I still remember the look on a guys face when he saw the first pornographic movie of his life during his trip out. Pr0n was totally outlawed and if people couldn't get out of the country, nothing could flow in either.

Anyway, I'm bored to argue about these things with you Borotsch (if you allow that endearment) as I've been there, done that and seen it all. You have a hard time to convince me that those things I witnessed during my visit there didn't exist. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Boroda
I say that it was simply different and that's all. Not better or worse. Different.

So different, that many of the countries "liberated" by USSR wanted to get rid of the difference.

I'm truly happy Finland didn't become part of the simply different order.

I wonder how many karelian people would been killed in the USSR work camps or such, had they not been evacuated.
USSR sure would have "evacuated" them permanently from the war zone and brought russians there.
Thats the way they "liberated" many areas, by moving large parts of the original population to somewhere else and moving in russians to their homes from somewhere else.

Germans did have problems with the civilians left behind advancing forces.
Because "surprisingly" some of them were armed.
So I don't wonder why someones didn't the idea of having russian people right behind the finnish frontline.
What do you think your great USSR would've done in a similar situation? told finns to behave nice behind the lines?

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I wouldn't know about that really since I've never been on the US soil in my life.

The biggest reason why the soviet movies weren't displayed anywhere was that your movie industry couldn't produce entertaining titles that would have been financially succesful. Simple as that.

SIAF,
You are wrong about the Soviet films.
Having seen ("partially") STALKER is not the litmus paper , it's a symptom of you being duped.
STALKER is the worst film by an outstanding Soviet film director. Why did you choose (?) to see that movie ?
You better see his masterpiece ANDREI RUBLEV.
Or see other films from the following list (I can't recommend several last ones which I did not see myself). Start with the THE CRANES ARE FLYING.
There's also at least a good hundred of very entertaining Soviet movies missing in this short list.
Also check out the price range which is twice higher compared to American flicks.
 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/JOA1H17EFGQA/102-8138786-8884133

[Siaf__csf]

Oh right now I remember - I saw the battleship Potemkin when I was very small. Unfortunately so small that I remember only that it had ships and cannon fight in it.

Weird that Stalker was the most expensive movie on the list if it was indeed the worst of his production.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Fishu
So different, that many of the countries "liberated" by USSR wanted to get rid of the difference.

I'm truly happy Finland didn't become part of the simply different order.

I wonder how many karelian people would been killed in the USSR work camps or such, had they not been evacuated.
USSR sure would have "evacuated" them permanently from the war zone and brought russians there.
Thats the way they "liberated" many areas, by moving large parts of the original population to somewhere else and moving in russians to their homes from somewhere else.

Germans did have problems with the civilians left behind advancing forces.
Because "surprisingly" some of them were armed.
So I don't wonder why someones didn't the idea of having russian people right behind the finnish frontline.
What do you think your great USSR would've done in a similar situation? told finns to behave nice behind the lines?

 
FISHU, the problem with your head is such that you don't even try to agree with the facts, but you are still trying to justify the war cruelties of the finnish side by trying to reduce their importance when compared to millions deaths inflicted on Soviet people by Stalinist regime.

Try to reply for your own side.

And BTW, in early 1930-s after the armed revolt against the agrarian 'collectivization' (suppression of private farms) the people of the Ugro-Finnish nation of Izhora (after the same river-name in Leningrad region) were exiled from their lands with the help of  NKVD troops.

This is a fact. I feel sorry for the innocent people who suffered at the hands of Stalin's NKVD. But don't anybody tell me that I am responsible for that revolt and exile. I was born after Stalin's death in the country which was different from the Stalin's time, though the same name 'USSR' was used. And in mid 1980-s this same territory named the USSR was again different country than before. But in your mind there was and there is no difference because you haven't lived in that country. The imperialistic capitalist propaganda kept you in the freezer of the early stages of the Cold War, so that your intact brains can be reused today.

I recommend you to turn your back side to the warm fire-place so that some hot blood can rush to your lobes and melt the ice crust on your brains.  
   

[Siaf__csf]

Genozaur fortunately there are plenty of ex-ussr countries today, filled with people who would like nothing more than to advise you of the joys and pleasures of being under USSR rule.

Every single person I've talked to from those countries hate russians more than anything. How come?

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Genozaur fortunately there are plenty of ex-ussr countries today, filled with people who would like nothing more than to advise you of the joys and pleasures of being under USSR rule.

Every single person I've talked to from those countries hate russians more than anything. How come?

Estonia? Latvia?

Countries that are EU and NATO members, at the same time organising SS "veteran" parades and declaring nazi concentration camps "recreational"? Insect-countries who's presidents refused from an invitation to May 9th celebration in Moscow? Well, tell me who are your friends...

In Ukraine I was quite surprised that nothing changed in 10 years that I didn't come there: people appreciate my language, only sometimes apologising (!!!, I was really shocked) for not speaking Russian... When people in the market in Chernovtsy (Western Ukraine, Bukovina) heard that I am from Moscow - they made discounts for me...

You look like a person who speaks about things you don't know. Your fantasy world is very far from reality. So it goes, typical for a propaganda victim.

[Siaf__csf]

Insect-countries who's presidents refused from an invitation to May 9th celebration in Moscow?

Rofl! The estonian president didn't see it fit to go and celebrate the day that sealed the occupation and years of suffering of his country.

He _had_ a strong reason to refuse. If things would be as rosy as you claim, they'd happily jump in the train again.

You have one twisted look on the world Boroda. Total victim of the communist time brainwashing.

Countries that are EU and NATO members, at the same time organising SS "veteran" parades and declaring nazi concentration camps "recreational"?

So it goes, typical for a propaganda victim.

What is this, black humor?

[Boroda]

siafka, I strongly advise you to read the last official textbook on Latvian history, where they call Salaspils a "pedagogical labour camp".

Then you'll be educated enough to go marching along with SS "veterans" and shout "Sieg Heil!".

Frankly speaking - I am happy that this nazis refuced to come. Could be sad for leaders civilized countries to have to shake hands with this cavemen.

Occupation my ass. The first book on Latvian laguage was printed in Russian in 1867. Bloody occupants taught them to read and write.

[Siaf__csf]

I hate to rain on your victory parade Boroda, but I think that the people who used to live in the occupied countries have a right to thier opinnion.

If they had no reason for dissatisfaction, why do you think they grasp every straw to secure themselves away from your country? Huh?

Think Borotscka, think.

[StSanta]

Boroda, no matter what you say, this is true:

Russian roads suck. Big time. They got more holes in 'em than Swiss cheeze. They're so banged up had they been human, they'd be a worn out prostitute who spends her time up against walls with sailors.

Seriously dude. I had problems getting used to OUR roads back home when i got home from my three week stay. No bumps or big arse holes. No liver jumping up to kiss my nose.

You may have awesome jump iron (AN-28, Mi-8), but your roads...they're almost as bad as your drivers.

Can't wait to go back.

I'll be in Russia week 28, 29, and 30 this year - around July 1st forward or something. A bunch of us will fly to Moscow and then find a way to get to Kolomna. If you can figure out a way for me to get there, I'll drop by your place and tell a lot of brag stories, and then go to Kolomna.

[Staga]

1 Year Visa for Russians to get in Finland 35€
Similar Visa for Finns to get in Russia 240€

Poor bastards.