Author Topic: Question to Finns (Read 27785 times)

Suave · « **Reply #945 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:45:19 AM »

Western lies about Russian health care.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1052247

You're avg muscovite knows that the hospitals are a joke. Don't let deluded clowns posting here sway you.

Boroda · « **Reply #946 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:56:07 AM »

Quote

Morning Edition, July 1, 1999 · NPR's Michelle Kelemen reports on the inadequacies of Russia's state-run hospitals. Problems include short supplies of medicine and equipment to appalling sanitary conditions.

So what? I know very well how the things are in public health-care in Moscow. I am happy that my Father uses military health-care, it's still as good (or better) then in Soviet times. The only thing that got worse - they don't give caviar weekly with hospital meals.

My Granny got into hospital in 1997, first time since 1945. She said that it was in fact absolutely worse then in 1941 when she travelled pregnant across the whole country from Moscow to Uzbekistan and then Urals, searching for Grandfather's evacuated artillery school...

Yes, now we have so-called "freedom" and "democracy", but we don't have basic human rights guaranteed like accomodation, job or healthcare. I'd prefer to live under "bloody communists" but have Soviet healthcare system.

A true result of "democratic changes".

Now I expect some siafkas to tell me the truth about bread lines. It's interesting to listen to propaganda hallucinations.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #947 on:** March 31, 2005, 08:08:39 AM »

to Suave

I talked not about Russian health care system (that was totally destroed since 1985-89), but about *soviet* healthcare system.

Despair · « **Reply #948 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:06:43 AM »

Well, Comarades, they cannot understand what is a good free health care, education, accomodations etc. cause they had never experienced any of it. Its like trying to explaim Mozart to deaf. I was educated in Soviet Union and i can speak 4 foreign languages, have a degree in economic sciences that alows me to choose my working time and schedule.

Boroda · « **Reply #949 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:18:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Despair
Well, Comarades, they cannot understand what is a good free health care, education, accomodations etc. cause they had never experienced any of it. Its like trying to explaim Mozart to deaf. I was educated in Soviet Union and i can speak 4 foreign languages, have a degree in economic sciences that alows me to choose my working time and schedule.

I don't idealize Soviet system, but some things were really good at that times.

The problem is that we adopted worst features from capitalistic world and deliberately killed all good features from Soviet system.

Despair, if you can read Russian - take a look at this two links:

About historical education now:
http://zhurnal.lib.ru/d/druzhinin_g_g/responce.shtml

And a school geometry test:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dashing/798754.html

mora · « **Reply #950 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:20:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Despair
Well, Comarades, they cannot understand what is a good free health care, education, accomodations etc. cause they had never experienced any of it. Its like trying to explaim Mozart to deaf. I was educated in Soviet Union and i can speak 4 foreign languages, have a degree in economic sciences that alows me to choose my working time and schedule.

We have all those things for free here, so I know what I'm talking about. The problem is that I'm not willing to pay for other peoples services. I rather buy the services I personally need. Usually the services you personally pay for are of better quality. Russia is still an USSR relic in customer service, as it is ridiculously bad or non-existant over there.

Sure it's nice to get a free education, but what good does it do if you need to work longer hours at almost the same pay as a worker, in most cases? OTOH my current bank balance with the state is currently positive, thanks to free education.

Too bad they cannot keep me from leaving like in the good old USSR.

Toad · « **Reply #951 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:51:03 AM »

Ah, the "gold old days" when it was so good no one wanted to leave.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #952 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:53:43 AM »

>>The problem is that I'm not willing to pay for other peoples services.

So, there is no army and police and government system in Finland? :-)

You always pay you slice to government, the only question is how to redistribute all this money beetwen people.

>>Usually the services you personally pay for are of better quality.

Well, in most cases it`s true. But, again, soviet healthcare and education systems were on of the best in the world - and still it were free. So, exceptions from this rule are possible. But still this is a rule, I think :-)

>>Sure it's nice to get a free education, but what good does it do if you need to work longer hours at almost the same pay as a worker, in most cases?

That`s not true. We had 8/5 system (8 hours per day/5 days per week) for most of the workers (except watchers and so on).

Salary for engineers were about 20% higher then for ordinary workers. Not much? But this is how socialism work - people must be equal. There were no 500/1 CEO/worker ratio, like in USA.

>>Too bad they cannot keep me from leaving like in the good old USSR.

Well, there were troubles if you try to emmigrate from USSR - but it was possible. There were a lot of jews, emmigrated into Israel.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #953 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:55:54 AM »

Toad, maybe your post photos of indian reservations here instead? 8-)

Boroda · « **Reply #954 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:00:45 AM »

Mora, I understand that civilized countries have free education and medical care, it was one of the things Soviet propaganda didn't tell us. I was surprised in 1990 when we met Dutch students in my Uni, and they told us that they have 6 years to take a 4-year course, and then state stops paying them scholarships

OTOH in 1990 I got 70 rubles monthly as a minimal scholarship (MSTU had higher scholarships then most of other institutes) plus 55 rubles for part-time programmer job at IT department, and could feed and dress myself w/o any credits or other stuff. I was only 17.

What we have now is a victory of "democracy", and education quality dropped below any reasonable limits. I knew I was getting a best engineering education in Europe and probably the whole world, now - who cares...

As for medical care - it was not insurance, it was simply free. The only possible medical system that really works.

I wonder why it was nessesary to abandon it for some kind of silly non-working political doctrine. Basic human rights are not "free expression" and non-existant "freedom of press".

Soviet customer service? When have you been here for the last time? I bet you never experienced Soviet customer service, from a point of view of a soviet citizen

But as for me - I'd prefer Soviet service with all the goodies we had to current "pay or die" attitude.

BTW, back to original topic: what was a reason to place Soviet citizens in camps in 1941-44? Was there any kind of trial? I thought Finland was a democratic country from the very beginning in 1918?

Boroda · « **Reply #955 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:06:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Ah, the "gold old days" when it was so good no one wanted to leave.

It's impossible to satisfy everyone. You can't imagine how many loosers who emigrated from USSR were shocked by the fact that they had to work for living in the West. They were so dissatisfied by Soviet system only because without working they had to limit themselves to 120 rubles monthly unable to buy anything in the market.

95% of Americans probably will prefer Soviet system to what they have now. No kidding.

Hmm. I think I should look in my family album for the photo of my Mother at the Berlin Wall around 1963...

Toad · « **Reply #956 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:08:27 AM »

Post all the pictures of Indian reservations that you like.

You won't find any with walls around them topped with barbed wire.

You won't find any of them showing people murdered for trying to leave. Indian lands are their own in the US; they are administered by tribal council. The people are free to come and go as they please.

On the other hand, in YOUR system

Quote

The wall claimed at least 239 deaths that were shot on escape attempts by frontier guards, drowned in river Spree or in lakes or died in other tragic ways. The first victim Rudolf Urban died when he jumped out of a window in Bernauer Straße. The last refugee who lost his life on the wall was Chris Gueffroy, shot on February 6th, 1989. Many people were terrified to see Peter Fechter bleeding to death at the wall without anyone coming to help him.

Think of that.. in 1989 people were being murdered just because they wanted leave "paradise". 16 years ago... still being murdered by your political system.

Toad · « **Reply #957 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:09:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
95% of Americans probably will prefer Soviet system to what they have no. No kidding.

You are totally delusional!

Keep posting this stuff.... please.

Boroda · « **Reply #958 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:20:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad

You are totally delusional!

Keep posting this stuff.... please.

Sorry for typing error. Kinda hard to type in two ABCs at the same time in two different windows.

Raven_2 · « **Reply #959 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:26:59 AM »

to Toad

>>The people are free to come and go as they please.

LOL. And why there need in reservations? "For their own good?" LOL again.

About photos.

On the first: ever seen soviet uniform? It differs much from clothing of that guy.

Second: roughly fake, as for me. And why you think that this is a Wall, but not nazi camp? Cause CNN post of Cold War time claim that?

Third:

Originaly, this guy was at your side :-)

As you can see, this guy was killed by USA troops, occupating West Side. Yep. Some USA soldier think that he is apostle Pavel at the Gates into Soviet Paradise and this guy not deserve to get in.

BTW, maybe he is just sleeping drunk-enough bum?