Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen

[culero]

Originally posted by Elfie
I believe the root of the problem lies in Mexico's low standard of living.

Undoubtedly, that's a contributing factor. However, think this through. Even given that, why would anyone from there want to come here if they didn't think they could find work? Yes, many people in Mexico are impoverished, but its the ease with which they find illegal employment that causes them to come here for it.

Originally posted by Elfie

You will never find all the employers that hire illegals. There will always be someone willing to hire them. Your solution isnt as simple as you make it out to be. The costs of investigating and prosecuting every employer you find that has illegals on his/her payroll will be enormous.

The simplest solution is to close the border.
snip

I disagree strongly. Detecting illegal employment is as simple as auditing business records and practices. You can either account for services paid for in your books and tax records or you can't.

A large part of my job is contracting for services rendered, in a community that has large numbers of illegal immigrants. If someone wants to sign a contract with me, they have to provide valid identification and a SSAN, or they aren't eligible, period. If I can't report via Form 1099 I ain't playing. If I didn't act in these ways, it would be easy for an auditor to detect the gaps in my reporting, and therefore identify likely sources of illegal labor. This will work in almost any business I can think of.

"Closing the border" would wreck the local economy here. Those "impoverished Mexicans" spend $millions in the stores and shopping malls here. Its a simple fact of life that there are better deals on certain types of goods here as compared to there. Its common to see middle-class Mexicans come here for a week at a time, stay in local hotels, eat in local, restaurants, and spend freely buying goods to take home.

Not to mention you're talking about a method that's spring-loaded to turn our border areas into mini-police states.

Quit trying to screw my hometown over. There's a better way to deal with it.

culero

[Steve]

Even given that, why would anyone from there want to come here if they didn't think they could find work? Yes, many people in Mexico are impoverished, but its the ease with which they find illegal employment that causes them to come here for it.

You are either a complete moron (which, to be fair, I do not believe) or you are denying the obvious simply to avoid conceding a point in this "debate"

The poor Mexican economy is the root of this multi-faceted problem.

If the Mexican economy was robust, how many Mexicans would literally risk their lives for "ease with which they find illegal employment"?

Do you seriously think they would still be trying to come across in  anythying but a minute fraction of current numbers?

I'll again point out that there are not Canadians illegally crossing the borders, by the millions, to find employment. The only logical conclusion can be that there is enough employment in Canada to prevent this.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by ASTAC
I agree...I can live with a plan that would legalize the ones already here..make them citizens and subject to all federal laws..

Not to throw a wrench in your cogs here, but if you will step back in time a few years you will find that this has been tryed and failed more than miserably.

[bigsky]

Originally posted by NUKE
culero, you are ignorant.

I want our laws enforced, plain and simple. If you insist on calling me a bigot, I will complain to HTC ( for the first time I  ever have) about you.

[Elfie]

"Closing the border" would wreck the local economy here. Those "impoverished Mexicans" spend $millions in the stores and shopping malls here. Its a simple fact of life that there are better deals on certain types of goods here as compared to there. Its common to see middle-class Mexicans come here for a week at a time, stay in local hotels, eat in local, restaurants, and spend freely buying goods to take home.

Who says we want tourism stopped?

I disagree strongly. Detecting illegal employment is as simple as auditing business records and practices. You can either account for services paid for in your books and tax records or you can't.

Costs to audit hundreds of thousands of buisinesses across America would be horrendous and time consuming. You can do random audits, but you would still have to audit a significant number of businesses each year in order to provide a deterrent.

Undoubtedly, that's a contributing factor. However, think this through. Even given that, why would anyone from there want to come here if they didn't think they could find work? Yes, many people in Mexico are impoverished, but its the ease with which they find illegal employment that causes them to come here for it.

I think Steve covered that one quite well

Not to mention you're talking about a method that's spring-loaded to turn our border areas into mini-police states.

Maybe thats what it will take to stop the hordes.

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by ASTAC
ESOL exists becaus ealot of the parents don't bother to learn...putting their children at a big disadvantage..and also helping to keep them from assimilating to our "culture"..making the teachers pay out of pocket for the program is what I find most distasteful about it..I'm sure it is helpful to some kids

Ummm, unless "Second Language" has some other meaning in the USA... do you think you could be any more confused?

[rpm]

Ya know, if there was more fake grass in Arizona it would cut the need for mexican landscaping crews. Of course you would need a few to use as installers.

[Rolex]

One thing increasing illegal immigration from Mexico, in spite of NAFTA, is the robust Chinese economy.

It's hard to have things both ways. Companies opened factories across the border in Mexico to take advantage of the low direct and indirect labor costs, low construction costs, lower pollution and employee safety standards to reduce the costs of the goods produced.

China's even lower production cost has forced the Mexican factories opened in the 1980s and 1990s to close. The cheap Mexican labor has been put out of work by even cheaper Chinese labor.

Your low price of products comes at a cost - illegal immigration by desperate people doing desperate things.

I know many of you won't get this, but the only way to reduce illegal immigration is take away the desperation - to improve the state of their lives through economic development and investment. Many US companies opened Canadian subsidiaries generations ago, and not to just exploit low labor costs.

You can't exploit cheap labor then discard them when you find someone even further down the desperation scale to do the same work a little cheaper. You don't like it when it happens to you. You scream bloody murder, but you're willing to do it to others.

I would propose to you that the cost of investment, training and economic development aid would be less than all costs associated with illegal immigration.

Laws are fine. There are more than enough laws declaring robbery, burglary, murder and even illegal immigration, to be illegal. All those laws haven't reduced the prison population much. More than 20% of all prisoners in the world (we're talking the entire planet here...) are in US prisons.

The US does a pretty good job of putting people in prison, but keeping people out of prison is a lesson still not learned.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Rolex
More than 20% of all prisoners in the world (we're talking the entire planet here...) are in US prisons.
 

Hehe. Sorry, but I got a chuckle out of this. It reminded me of a statement made by our county sheriff to a family member on the phone. I thought then it was the poster child for "DUH" statements. Then a few days later I see the statement from him quoted again in the newspaper.
He was bemoaning the work his dept. had to do in a certain area of the county. He actualy came off with the attitude that if you lived in this area you were not going to get much consideration from his dept.
The statement he made was that 65 to 70 percent off all the sheriff`s dept calls were to this area.  Considering the area in question holds around 80 to 85 percent of the county`s population and is basicaly the only area not under a city police jurisdiction it was a real brain buster.

[lazs2]

cuelero and I are right on this..  the REAL problem is the employer..  A national 5 day waiting period and background check on all employees regardless of race would do it... the highly overworked imigration officials would be 10 times more effeftive with one tenth the workload.   People who were illegals would be more obvious in an atmosphere of few illegals.  

Employers would need to be jailed.   period  even the rich ***** with a maid... even you hiring a landscaper.

The politicians would win in this one two.  legal immigrants don't like the illegals any more than natural citizens... legals of mexican decent would vote for a politician who got rid of the illegals by punishing the fat white employer.

but cuerlo... I don't agree on the multi lingual teaching thing.. My daughter went... I thought it was a good idea till I went to class to watch... everything was said in english and then in spanish..

everyone got half as much teaching in the same time period (except in language) that they would have under all english.

lazs

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Elfie
Well, would each province become their own state? Or the whole country as one state?

I forget....how many Provinces in Canada?

10 Provinces and 3 Territories if I so recall, as I am some "Evil American".

Karaya

[culero]

Originally posted by lazs2
snip
but cuerlo... I don't agree on the multi lingual teaching thing.. My daughter went... I thought it was a good idea till I went to class to watch... everything was said in english and then in spanish..

everyone got half as much teaching in the same time period (except in language) that they would have under all english.

lazs

I'd be pissed off if that was the case here. What I'm talking about is classes taught in English, with Spanish as one subject amongst many.

culero

[culero]

Originally posted by NUKE
culero, you are ignorant.

I want our laws enforced, plain and simple. If you insist on calling me a bigot, I will complain to HTC ( for the first time I  ever have) about you.

Looks like the shoe fits, IMO. Now you sound gay, as well.

culero

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by lazs2


but cuerlo... I don't agree on the multi lingual teaching thing.. My daughter went... I thought it was a good idea till I went to class to watch... everything was said in english and then in spanish..

everyone got half as much teaching in the same time period (except in language) that they would have under all english.

lazs

I'm kind of on the fence on this one.  I didn't learn to speak English until I got into kindergarten and then I learned by full English immersion. There was none of this English as a second language classes that were offered.  Don't think they even thought up this concept back in 1975.  Within 6 months, I was speaking English almost fluently and by the time I entered 1st grade, was fully fluent in English.


ack-ack

[Steve]

cuelero and I are right on this.. the REAL problem is the employer..

At least partially.  Lax law enforcement is also to blame. Poor border security.  People in powere in fear of liberals, etc.