Religious question for Christians

[JAGED]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Guess Again BlkKnt.

Go back to when Emperor Constatine first put all the varies Gospels, testements, etc together.

He left out more than he put in.

Correction: Emporer Constantine did not put all of the various Gospels together.  He merely convened the first Ecumenical Council whereby all the Bishops of the Church decided, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what should and should not be in the Bible.

"Where two or more gather in my name..."

[wrag]

Was some time back but I knew someone that wanted to know why a car needed an oil change.

I have a mechanical background and I tried to explain.

I explained friction.  I explained heat. I explained ring blow by making the oil get dirty.  I explained wear.  I explained, and explained, and explained.

This person, just could not, or would not understand any of what I said and continued to ask why a car needed an oil change.

As to why the ten commandments?  Our legal system was and still is, to some degree, based upon it and the mosaic laws.

IE: the death penalty was/is related to mosaic law. GOD said send those that murder to him.

Also... the Ten Commandments are still in effect.  Not for all, but more so for some then for others.  Much of that which is warned against within Mosaic law has a solid scientific base.  The eating of some creatures is, or can be, quite dangerous.

Much of what is contained within the Bible is not easy to understand without  a knowledge of what the world was like during those times.  One needs to be a scholar of such things if one is to have an understanding of them.

Do you know anything about the Nephelim?  Probably spelled it wrong.  The Cannites?  Probably spelled that wrong too. I don't think you can find a full explaination about them in the Bible.  You have to look elsewhere.  Point is before you start making statements you might want to research the question a little closer.  

The great flood IIRC is related to the Nephelim.

GOD was, IMHO, staying within his Ten Commandments in every case.  Perhaps my understanding of Ten Commandments differs from yours.

"Thou shall not kill"

IIRC kill and slay in olde english have different meanings.  Kill I believe was tied to murder, or causing the death of an innocent, whereas slay was to bring about the death of an opponent on a battlefield, or in defense of yourself, or others, when attacked.

Samson, IIRC within the King James Version, did not kill his enemies but he did slay his enemies.  Although I think it says or uses the word slew (the plural form?).

IIRC in the original Hebrew the word used means MURDER.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Nilsen
Why?

He is doing well i think.

True.

Karaya

[BlkKnit]

OK GhostH...

Now, the info I had claimed that the KJV was in fact translated not from one version, or from even the early greek version, but took into account all versions up to that time and made use of them for the best possible translation (according to thier limitations of course).

Granted there was much left out and re-interpreted in that Constantinian era.  Aryanism became heresy for one thing, which put the newly converted german tribes out of the good graces of the church and empire (again).  But then again, JAGED has a valid point IMO.

I am of the same opinion about the bible Ghost, but its not the exact reading which my faith hinges on....rather the concept and ideal.  But unlike some people (the type of which we have all met at one time or another) I dont think I need to tell everyone else what they should believe or how they should feel about this topic.

[Wotan]

Correction: Emporer Constantine did not put all of the various Gospels together. He merely convened the first Ecumenical Council whereby all the Bishops of the Church decided, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what should and should not be in the Bible.

"Where two or more gather in my name..."

JAGED is absolutely right. Some of you need a good histrory lesson. Especially Nuke. Not only he doesn't understand Catholicism it's clear he has trouble making sense out of the whole 'Christian' thing.

All of Protestantism's erroneous repudiations of the Orthodox Churches (to include Catholicism) have as a basis the no less erroneous repudiation of Sacred Tradition by Protestants (The Bible didn't spontaneously generate. The books of the Bible, and others, were written and inspired by the Holy Spirit but that which we call the Bible can not be properly understood with out understanding the traditions and the teachings that they evolved from.) They strive to lean only on Sacred Scripture (Bible), not realizing to what extent both constitute one undivided whole.

Protestants arbitrarily limit the action of the Holy Spirit in the Church to apostolic times, and that is why they consider all church enactments that have appeared definitively after the Apostles as purely human. They forget at the same time that even the very composition of the books comprising Sacred Scripture (first Ecumenical Council) was determined considerably after the death of the Apostles. Protestants forget also, or prefer not to remember, that the oral preaching of Christianity (the oral Tradition) preceded the inscription of the sacred books of the New Testament.

Or, recognizing Sacred Tradition until the time of the definitive composition of the books of the New Testament in the second century, Protestants have difficulty agreeing that the Holy Spirit, abiding in the Church as in the Body of Christ, did not cease to safeguard and vivify the true meaning of Sacred Scripture in the following centuries as well.

According to Orthodox teaching, Sacred Scripture is the fundamental monument of Sacred Tradition and contains the fullness of the divine revelation. But the Holy Spirit, who inspired the Apostles and Evangelists in their oral and written evangelism, guides the Holy Church even now, promoting the understanding and assimilation of Christ's truth.

[Torque]

what no Frodo and a Ring in there somewhere?

[Nilsen]

Originally posted by Torque
what no Frodo and a Ring in there somewhere?

[slimm50]

Man it's hillarious seeing how many took this troll bait, hook, line and sinker. The opening question is so fraught with sarcastic ignorance that I wouldn't know where to begin to answer, assuming I was so inclined.

[StarOfAfrica2]

I'm not even going to begin to get into the debate.  Just a couple of points to add though for edification.

The difficulty in translations is that Hebrew is a linguistic nightmare even for those who know how to read it.  Hebrew has no vowels.  Words quite literally can be taken many different ways, and even pronounced different ways.  It takes scholars years of training to even begin to hope to understand context properly.  Greek is a little easier, being very similar to Hebrew but with the vowels in place.  Assuming the Greek translation is good (and for the New Testament, I would think both Greek and Latin translations should be, since most Jews at the time spoke at least some of all 3), translation becomes easier.  Translation from Latin is the most simple, with Latin being the base for so many modern languages.

I think Wotan had it the closest.  If you truly believe the Bible is God's Divine Word, then you have to trust that whatever language you read it in the Bible contains what you need in order to understand God's Will and get by.   Its just part of Faith.  I don't care if you are Protestant or Catholic, every true Christian believes that.  However, I'm also staying clear of the Protestant/Catholic argument.

On the issue of Old Testament vs New Testament, and why the Ten Commandments matter if they are nullified?

The point of the death and resurrection of Jesus was that he took the place of the sacrifices made in the Temple.  Before, in order to atone for sin, you were required to make a sacrifice to God.  Something that would be important to you, and pleasing to God as your offering.  This sacrifice could only be performed by God's annointed Priests, in a part of the Temple where laymen were never allowed.  Jesus took the place of all sacrifices, from that point until the end of time.  All we have to do is accept him as that sacrifice, and be truly penitent for our sins.  Lambs were traditionally used in this sacrifice, and came to symbolize innocence lost and restored.  Thus Jesus is known as "the Lamb of God".  So yes, you could theoretically break every one of the Ten Commandments and as long as you were truly sorry you could be forgiven.  Just like that.  So what about the Ten Commandments?

The Ten Commandments were given as God's Law for his people (Jews) to live by.  You can, by inference, extend them to Gentile Christians since our Faith's traditions are descended from the Jewish model (hence the term "Judeo-Christian").  In the OT days, only a person who lived a perfect life (obeyed every one of the Ten Commandments) could go to Heaven.  You could, of course, make sacrifice to atone for sin, but it wasn't conceiveable to do it every day, and we sin every day.  Jesus' never-ending sacrifice sort of "relaxed" that.  We should still live a good life, but the acceptance of the sacrifice, in essence accepting that we are willing to do things God's way instead of our own, is the most essential aspect.  The reason many Christians get bent out of shape over the debate on removing displays of the Ten Commandments from public places is that the US was founded on Christian principles, our Constitution and our laws are based on the model laid out by the Ten Commandments.  Not because of moral issues necessarily, but because they make good sense as the basis for a working society.  They see the removal of the Ten Commandments as an attack on their way of life, their faith, their history and their country.  Some fundamentalists stir the pot and make things even more heated than they need to be.  It has nothing (or little) to do with historical context.

As for the issue of Mary, it's a non-issue since she wasn't married at the time she was made to be with child.  I'm assuming that was a joke, but I thought I'd throw that in anyway.

[jetb123]

Originally posted by RedTop
Why ask or even worry with this if you don't believe in the 1st place.

Quoted for truth.

[jetb123]

Originally posted by myelo
Does that include 6-month-old babies?

I think god, knows who, and who cant understand the religion. Maybe if
they parents were saved?

[Fury]

No need to single out Christians....I don't think there is any God or god from any religion on the planet that follows His or Her or It's own rules, is there?

[Silat]

Originally posted by Tumor
NO

When your God... you can do WTF you want.

Smiting those who don't like it is an option.

Oh to have that power:)

[Replicant]

Regarding the Great Flood.

The Nephilim were Fallen Angels, sons of God, who had gone to Earth and taken human wives.  This angered God....

"The Nephilim were one of the primary reasons for the great Flood in Noah's time.  Immediately after the Nephilim are mentioned, God's Word tells us this, "The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth — men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air — for I am grieved that I have made them" (Genesis 6:5-7).  So, God proceeded to flood the entire earth, killing everyone and everything (including the Nephilim) other than Noah and his family and the animals on the ark (Genesis 6:11-22)."

and...

One by one the angels of heaven are appointed by God to proceed against the Watchers and their offspring the Nephilim, described as 'the bastards and the reprobates, and the children of fornication'. Azazel is bound hand and foot, and cast for eternity into the darkness of a desert referred to as Dudael. Upon him are placed 'rough and jagged rocks' and here he shall forever remain until the Day of judgment, when he will be 'cast into the fire' for his sins. For their part in the corruption of mankind, the Watchers are forced to witness the slaughter of their own children before being cast into some kind of heavenly prison, an 'abyss of fire'. Although the Watchers' leader, Shemyaza, is cast into this abyss alongside his brothers, in other versions of the story he undergoes a more dramatic punishment. Since he was tempted by a beautiful mortal maiden named Ishtahar to reveal the Explicit Name of God in exchange for the offer of carnal pleasure, he is to be tied and bound before being made to hang for all eternity between heaven and earth, head down, in the constellation of Orion."


Also...

"And God said to Noah, 'I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above; and set the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks.

"For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die. But I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.

"And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive. Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them.' Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him."

So... God was attempting to savour mankind, to rid it of evil this was God's justification for the Flood.

Incidently, one of the Fallen Angels (The Nephilim/The Watchers) was called 'Anakim'... perhaps where Star Wars 'Anakin' came from eh?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by NUKE
I don't think so, but how could I possibly know? Think about this though: If you do not accept Jesus as your savour, God will put you in hell. Hell is the true death.

But but but, I thought he loves us.

So in a sense, God will kill you if you reject him.

 that kind of reminds me of a few people.  Lets see, there is Hitler, Sadam, Stalin and company, Pick any relegius leader, etc.  Sounds like he is a loving caring kind of guy