Russian classrooms reverting to soviet version of history

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Wolfala
In defense, each of us has a tendancy to write our own histories - that is something that everyone, and every nation is guilty of at somepoint.

Do you agree or no Karaya?

As for resenting a person's encyclopedic knowlege on whatever topic is at hand, pick up a book and contribute to the discourse rather then openly bash.

I don't see folks flaming Widewing for everything he knows about aircraft and Naval Aviation from his life long first hand experience with the subject.

Nor do I see anyone evicerating Dago about mechanical issues with aircraft, despite his 20 years + qualifications as an A&P in the field.

Point is - tone it down. Take everything with a grain of salt, and don't sweat the small ****.



Wolf

I'm not flaming anyone.   I am once and for all, posting FACTUAL EVENTS that cannot be denied.  Why you gonna tell me that?  Other people in here have said worse stuff than I did?  But, you and I know why you did.  

No point taken.  No point needed.  You're "attempting to lecture" the wrong person.  

Then again, it is ok for you to start a thread "that would inevitably" Bash France for it's vote against an "EU Constitution"?  Practice what you preach, I've not an ill will towards you, but don't try to come across as a saint.   Please, at least show that sort of respect.

Karaya

[Wolfala]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm not flaming anyone.   I am once and for all, posting FACTUAL EVENTS that cannot be denied.  Why you gonna tell me that?  Other people in here have said worse stuff than I did?  But, you and I know why you did.  

No point taken.  No point needed.  You're "attempting to lecture" the wrong person.  

Karaya

I'm not affirming or contradicting anything - and that was not a lecture either. If it was, i'd probally give you a 60 page dissertation on the subjects you listed which would make the provost's eye's bleed and your brain hemorage.

Don't sweat it.

Wolf


P.S.  

It was not a shot against France. But it was a very very clever piece of writing that was quite humorous to read.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by Boroda
I am proud that my country never practiced or planned genocide.

So what was Stalin's excuse?????

[Rino]

Originally posted by spitfiremkv
well, we have to concede this to Boroda: Nothing like the Holocaust was done by the Soviet state.

The reason for that is simple: The dissenters were sent off to Siberia where they still had to do work for the state. No reason to kil them. And to most, their fate seemed worse than death, being  separated from their families, friends and their entire previous life.

     My sister in law's father was given to the USSR by the US at
the end of the war in Europe.  Of the 2400 guys in his camp, less
than 300 were alive when he was repatriated in 1950.

     No, he wasn't a Nazi, he was drafted in 1943 and made a
flak gunner.  He was wounded by a P-38 on June 6, 1944 and
was sent home to recooperate.  While he was in Siberia, he was
forced to build bridges for the Siberian highway and railroad.

     Sounds to me an awful lot like the Holocaust, YMMV.

[storch]

Originally posted by Boroda
So they finally try to get rid of "Russia - the Mother of all Evil" attitude.

It's definetly better then to have a modern history book that has 10 pages about WWII, 8 of them about lame "allied" fighting at North Africa and on some god-forgotten islands in the Pacific, with only 5 lines about Stalingrad.



Yeah! Irked authorities! We have another "fighter with evil totalitarian regime"! Freedom to parrots!



Yes, another modern pop-history stunninghunk who says that USSR had to get into war in 1939 to die for "allied" interests.




What occupation? Did I miss something? They were allowed to join USSR after a legitimate democratic procedure. Or was it better to leave the brave sprat-killers to Hitler?



A new, refreshing view on Katyn tragedy: now it was Russian intelligence!

Especially after Russian General Prosecutor's office supplied documents about Polish prisoners that definelty prove that there were no mass executions.



A smart decision, he'd better send the bloody murderers to the sunny shores of Taimyr.

My verdict: silly rant of a discredited "propaganda warfare" mercenary.

 wooooot!!!! funniest thing I've seen in months.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Staga
http://www.ukar.org/famine.html
http://www.holodomor.org/

Of course those are just propaganda.
Sovier Union tried to save Ukraine and its people but alas; capitalist forces destroyed all glorious 5 year plans before they were executed (plans; not persons) and thus millions died.

Staga, my family (Mother's side) is Ukrainian, and I dare to say that I now a little more about the subject of "golodomor" (let me transcribe it in Russian way). My Grand-Uncle died from typhus working in starving villages...

JFYI: at the same time millions of people died at Volga region, for the same reason: bad harvest. Noone cares about that because they were Russians, that means "not humans" for the West.

Mass starvation happened in Russian Empire every 3-5 years. Last hunger happened in 1947.

Being a Ukrainian didn't mean being an "opressed minority" in USSR. Just as belonging to any other nation.

"Golodomor" is a tool used by bonehead Ukrainian nationalists to show "evil occupation by evil Soviet regime". Following this logic I can ask if my Grandfather was an evil Ukrainian occupant opressing poor Russians. And if Russia should ask for compensations from Ukraine for "crimes committed by Khruschev".

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
A bunch of us are just plain fed up with Boroda's "expertise" in Sarin, Nuclear Physics, and "rewriting Soviet History".

Karaya

I am off the ignore list? What a shame!

My "expertise" in Sarin and Nuclear Physics is limited by standard Soviet civil-defence training in school and college. IMHO it's pretty strange when a person boasts his lack of basic knowledge in vital things, especially in a country that wages "war on terror".

And with that VPHR sarin tubes - it's very bad that your troops can't tell a chemical detection agent ampulas from chemical weapons and don't have anyone who can read Cyrillic or even German.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Rino
My sister in law's father was given to the USSR by the US at
the end of the war in Europe.  Of the 2400 guys in his camp, less
than 300 were alive when he was repatriated in 1950.

I guess the others were slaughtered and eaten without salt by Jewish cossacks.

Or maybe simply sent home before that man.

Originally posted by Rino
No, he wasn't a Nazi, he was drafted in 1943 and made a
flak gunner.  He was wounded by a P-38 on June 6, 1944 and
was sent home to recooperate.  While he was in Siberia, he was
forced to build bridges for the Siberian highway and railroad.

I wonder why he was given to USSR by the "allies" if he's so innocent. US gave shelter to many nazi criminals, later employed by CIA, why didn't they simply save an innocent drafted man? I have heard enough such stories, sorry.

Originally posted by Rino
Sounds to me an awful lot like the Holocaust, YMMV.

Tell this to the Jews and Slavs who were killed in gas-chambers by millions. Or to a man that I met in a hospital 2 months ago, who was 2 years old when he and his mother were taken to labour camp in Germany, where his mother had to work excavating peat from a swamp without almost any food or shelter. It's always so cruel when hangmen are turned into victims.

[Krusher]

Originally posted by parker00
Great logic!!!

Welcome to Gixers world !

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Boroda
I wonder why he was given to USSR by the "allies" if he's so innocent. US gave shelter to many nazi criminals, later employed by CIA, why didn't they simply save an innocent drafted man? I have heard enough such stories, sorry.
 

Because my dear Borada if you had  studied real WW2 history, instead of the Commie version, you would know why.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Because my dear Borada if you had  studied real WW2 history, instead of the Commie version, you would know why.

I have read enough Western books on WWII, but I don't remember an answer to this question. Maybe you'll be so kind to enlighten me?

[68DevilM]

id like to see how different the history books are in the US compaired to say a country like switzerland....

[Wolfala]

Originally posted by 68DevilM
id like to see how different the history books are in the US compaired to say a country like switzerland....

It is not so much the books used as the quality of the teacher on the subject. I was fortunate during high school to have a surpurb history teacher from Brown University. Going to the University of Illinois was a similar experience as many of the professors were mentored under Peter Peret, who for history buff's is preeminent authority on military history for the last 40 years (but he's also the biggest salamander you will ever encounter - Ohio State has grown on him.) Books tell the events and how they occured. The teacher's job is to interperate the events and make them relevant to the students who, 99 % of are completely detached from because it has not effected them personally.

An effective teacher bridges that gap.



Wolf

[dedalos]

Originally posted by parker00
How do you know about the Indians, oh yeah because we allow everyone to see and talk about our mistakes so we learn from them. It wasn't a high or proud point of American history but we don't deny it either.

Mistakes?  This is how this country was build!  Genocide of the locals first and then slavory.  Offcorce, once teh country was build, we decided it was a 'mistake' and started critisizing everyone else.  

Point is, every country is guilty of similar crimes.  Some did not have enough power to comit them but given the oportunity . . . you get the idea.  Now, we can only have these arguments if we chose a starting date.  For example, I can claim that Greece has not commited any atrosities (that you would know of).  Well, it really depends on how far back you want to go in time.  

Anyway, get off your big white horses, stop pretending you know everyones history, and remember, no one is better than anyone else.  We just did not have the right oportunity yet.  (except the Germans, lol.  Something about them scares )

[Staga]

News from Finland:

Russian embassy leased apartments for Russian errr... female bed workers and when they got caught their ambassador contacted the chief of largest Finnish TV/Radio operator and asked that they would think before releasing that news; it might hurt the interests between Finland and Soviet Uni.. err... Russia.

They also replied to the note about Russian aircrafts violating Finnish airspace: They said no incidents like those have happened.

Wolfala; I know You have also connections to Russia but we're living next to them and I think we have pretty good idea how things are handled in Russia.
Same way as they were handled in Soviet Union.