Lala's Ruined It For Me

[J_A_B]

"if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history?"

The LA7 is built to perform best in short range, low altitude engagements..  That is exactly the kind of fighting that happened on the Eastern Front.  It just so happens that the fighting in the MA resembles the Eastern Front more than anything else, and in that kind of environment the LA7 excells.


Try taking them up to 25-30K sometime (where much of the air war in the West was being fought) and see how well they hold up.  The LA7 is a sitting duck up there.  Heck, anything over 10K effectively neuters the LA7.



J_A_B

[Vad]

Originally posted by J_A_B
"if the la7 in real life could for lack of a better word "School" every other plane it fought against, why is it not the best known, and most revered WWII plane in history?"

The LA7 is built to perform best in short range, low altitude engagements..  That is exactly the kind of fighting that happened on the Eastern Front.  It just so happens that the fighting in the MA resembles the Eastern Front more than anything else, and in that kind of environment the LA7 excells.


Try taking them up to 25-30K sometime (where much of the air war in the West was being fought) and see how well they hold up.  The LA7 is a sitting duck up there.  Heck, anything over 10K effectively neuters the LA7.

J_A_B

In addition.

Russian fighters were equipped with oxigen masks, but russian veterans wrote that they had no chance to try it during the war. On occasion when they needed them they didn't work anyway.

Could you imagine P51 with broken oxigen equipments?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by JB73
i just want to pop in and make clear....

my usage of the word "you" is in the generic sense... you as in anyone who flies the la7, or you as in anyone who flies a spit.

Same.


Clifra,

I didn't get cherry picked very often because I watched for it.  They'd try, and then run like sissies.  That is the problem.  They would run instead of fight.  A straight path through with guns blazing and then running for your life when you miss is not fighting.

[Kev367th]

Think about it -
Once fuel porkage was limited to 75%, you could almost guarentee the Lalas use would increase.
So all the guys who complained about 25% fuel and are now complaining about the Lala - no-one to blame but yourselves.

Porking fuel was the one way to limit them.

J_A_B - By 43/44 the air war in the West was mostly at low alts.

[straffo]

But porking fuel had impact on other planes  than the La7.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Kev367th

J_A_B - By 43/44 the air war in the West was mostly at low alts.

This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.

Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.

[BlkKnit]

Once fuel porkage was limited to 75%, you could almost guarentee the Lalas use would increase. So all the guys who complained about 25% fuel and are now complaining about the Lala - no-one to blame but yourselves.

Geez Kev, we gotta have something to whine about

Seriously, I dont think they need to perk the la7, I just meant I understood how one can become annoyed at their high usage.  I dont mind fighting one, not one bit, just hate it when I roll into a home base, vulching lala runs away and I decide to heck with it and go to land.......and of course here he comes, putting holes in my plane as I am slow and low on approach or on the ground. (I am not very good at landings and have to take my time with them)

But, I flew it a lot when i first started, the fuel thing became annoying and I always was a 109 fan so started flying it instead.  Tried most everything, couln't figure out how all those N1K's were so deadly when i couldn't do a thing in them......but lately I have come to appreciate the N1K a bit (still I prefer the KI84).

So, Odd is burned out by all the LA7's.  Understandable.  I would rather see other types used more often instead of the same few planes, but for guys like me, flying a less forgiving aircraft is not a very good option.   Maybe a few of the highly skilled would be willing to do some "teaching" about how to win and survive in some of the less popular models.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.

Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.

Mostly, and we were discussing dogfights as opposed to interceptors going after hi-alt bombers with their escorts.
There was a lot more going on than hi-alt bombing raids, jeez.

Thats explains why most aircraft from late 1943 onwards became more and more geared for lower alt fights. Not saying there wasn't hi-alt planes in development/in use or that it never happened. But it was greatly diminished from the earlier war years.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

You spoke of the air war in the West, in 1943 and 1944. There was little or no air to ground war in the Wesy until AFTER the June 6 invasion.

For the most part, fighter development continued to be about SPEED, and mostly at higher altitudes. Superchargers and their configuration was geared towards increasing power at high altitudes, as was propellor development.

There were of course exceptions, such as some Merlin equipped planes having their superchargers regeared to tune them for mid-low altitude efficiency.

 However, throughout 1943, and the 1st half of 1944, development was geared towards increasing power, speed, and climbrate above 20-25K. In fact, even in the second half on 1944, the majority of the air to ground work, and the low altitude work, was handled by fighters designed for high altitude performance.

[6GunUSMC]

Originally posted by Karnak
... However the La-7 is just a tool.  ...

Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools.  

JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You spoke of the air war in the West, in 1943 and 1944. There was little or no air to ground war in the Wesy until AFTER the June 6 invasion.

For the most part, fighter development continued to be about SPEED, and mostly at higher altitudes. Superchargers and their configuration was geared towards increasing power at high altitudes, as was propellor development.

There were of course exceptions, such as some Merlin equipped planes having their superchargers regeared to tune them for mid-low altitude efficiency.

 However, throughout 1943, and the 1st half of 1944, development was geared towards increasing power, speed, and climbrate above 20-25K. In fact, even in the second half on 1944, the majority of the air to ground work, and the low altitude work, was handled by fighters designed for high altitude performance.

So I guess that explains why Supermarine turned out mostly L.F. Spit versions from 1943 onwards?
1943 LF IX
1943 LF XIII
1943 MK XII optimised for low alt interception of 190s.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This is very interesting. I guess the B-17's, B-24's, and Lancasters all flew below 15K, over all those German cities, in 1943 and the 1st half of 1944. That would certainly explain why both sides were working on high altitude performance.

Only AFTER the invasion, 61 years ago today, did the air war become mostly a ground interdiction action. And even then, high altitude bombing was still going on.

Why the brit created the 2nd TAF so ?
It started in summer 1943 and not after the invasion

[JB73]

Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools.  

JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.

back sir, i just feel how i feel lol

i can't wait until the last week of june when JB's dweeb week is, i'll show the true meaning of dweebery in an la7 and spit V >: ) muhahahahahahaha

[dedalos]

Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
Correction: The LA7 isnt a tool, the LA7 pilots are the tools.  

JB73 you seem to be among the few people in this thread who get the point Oddball made.

Which goes something like this:  Whaaaaaaaaaa, there is a faster plane than mine!!!   Perk it or get rid of it.  My plane should be the fastest.  

[Karnak]

Virgil,

The Merlin 66 with it's lower altitude performance was a direct result of the tests of the high altitude Merlin 61 Spitfire F.Mk IX's tests against a captured Fw190A determining that the critical altitude on the Merlin 61 was almost 10,000ft too high.  The most produced Spitfire Mk IX was the LF.Mk IX with the Merlin 66, though they also made about 1000 HF.Mk IXs with the high altitude Merlin 70.  The definitive Merlin Spit, the Mk VIII, was mostly powered by Merlin 66s are well.

It really depended on the role the aircraft was being used for.  High blown engines were more desireable for P-38s, P-47s, P-51s, B-17s, B-24s, Lancs, Halibags, B Mossies and NF Mossies.  Spits were more often employed for fighter sweeps, small scale strikes and medium bomber escort into France and the low countries, for all of which it was desirable to have engines with a lower critical altitude.



On topic:

I had no problem fighting La-7s, they just seemed to have problems wanting to fight me.  Fighting was never the issue.