Hi Seagoon
Originally posted by Seagoon
Religious intolerance? Because I don't believe that all religions are true - as opposed to the more socially acceptable belief that no religions are true and because in reviewing the history and teaching of Islam I happen to think that men like Hasan Al-Banna and the President of Iran have a more authentic understanding of the religion they profess than liberal Muslims?
I could say to you that you are deceived by Satan, that your religion is false and, that I'm very sorry, but you are going to Hell. I could also point out that you will be able to redeem your soul if you convert to my religion.
That's offensive to someone like yourself who has strong faith. Yet, you seem to have no problem saying that to most of the human race.
Feel free to think and say what you like. You are entitled to have an opinion and voice it. That doesn't mean you are right, of course.
How does this intolerance manifest itself exactly? Who am I, and people like me, encouraging people to fight and kill? In what ways am I telling people to go out and spread Christianity by the sword? Who am I oppressing, or forcing to pay an extra tax to stay in the country? Who am I forbidding to build new houses of worship or gather to pray? Who am I threatening with death if they apostatize? Whose religious literature am I banning, seizing, and destroying? In what way am I acting like the governments of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?
I've heard your opinion on Franklin Graham's statement following 9/11. I assume that you still support his viewpoint, despite the fact that even he had the good sense to retract it.
"It perpetuates this theology of hate, which is very dangerous. They are not violent people. But their level of intolerance can in fact feed violent actions... When people commit hate crimes, for example, against Muslims, and they happen to be Christian in background, one of the things you have to ask yourself is, Where does this come from? Where are they getting this sense of legitimacy?" John Esposito, Professor of Islam, Georgetown University
In summary Hoopy, in what ways am I and Christians like me acting towards professors of other religions in the ways SHARIA LAW says professors of religions other than Islam are to be treated? Or is this some sort of secret message buried behind public statements saying our reaction should be to pray for them and witness to them?
Where in the Gospel does it say that two wrongs make a right?
In actuality Hoopy, my days of freely hating and wishing other men dead came before my conversion, and to tell the truth, I am glad they are behind me.
Good - so you should appreciate that you do not have to be a Christian to understand and live by fundamental Truths.
Alright then, let me simply ask you as well and perhaps we'll finally get an answer. Was Muhammad's massacre of the Jewish Banu-Qurayza tribe in 627 AD and his taking one of the widows as wife (bedding her that night) - something justified in the Quran and praised in the Hadiths - an act of "the real Islam" or was that a minority sect at work?
Don't be so frugal with the truth, Seagoon. The Banu Qurayza were signatories to the Constitution of Medina, yet secretly allied themselves with the common enemy. Sure, the judgement was harsh, but it was made by a judge of their own choosing who, being a Jewish Moslem, judged them according to Jewish law:
"And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took [all] the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods." Numbers 31:7-9
Quite so, any verse can be taken out of context. That is why I keep trying to frame those verses in their historical context. For instance, the "kill the infidel verses" in the Holy Bible are only to be found in the Old Testament passages relating to the Conquest of Canaan. That was a one time historical event now decisively over. There are no such verses in the NT and in fact when the disciples ask Jesus if they should call down fire from heaven on those who refuse his message he rebukes them. The overall message is that no such "killing of the infidel" will occur as long as we are in the age of grace and that age doesn't end till judgment day.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
You don't say?
On the other hand, the "Kill the Infidel, kill the Apostate" passages in the Quran were penned while Muhammad himself was doing just that, and the termination of the Jihad commands only comes when Islam is worldwide.
"and when the unbelievers cease to threaten you, when they cease, then remember that God is [com]passionate and you have to stop fighting."
Not quite what you said. Maybe you confused it with this?:
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
As it happens Samaritans purse does an incredible amount of charitable work often under strict "no evangelizing" provisions.
So they give the Arabic Bibles to American troops to distribute to Muslims.
But my question about the Tsunami still stands. If we are full of hate and intolerance why is it that we went into clear away corpses and to feed, heal, and help? Why didn't we "hate filled" Christians just dance in the streets as some did following 9/11? Also, where is the massive Islamic charitable assistance when non-Muslim nations have a disaster? Is the Sultan of Brunei skint?
I'd like to say for humanitarian reasons only, just like the good Samaritan, but I don't think that is the case. Do you?
Who said you were "hate filled"?
As to the Islamic aid groups - maybe they are just too busy dealing with ongoing problems in Muslim areas. Maybe they think it is idiotic to wander into a disaster area with bandages in one hand and scripture in the other. Having said that, if they are so concerned with Islamic dominion over they Earth, why aren't they following the evangelical lead on this new form of Holy War?
Have you calculated the Sultans Zakat?
