Can the ordinance porking be addressed?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Pick a number, then. Having an entire front stagnant for an hour because of one or two pork-runners is absurd.

I'm sure rshubert will be along shortly to tell us how it's not the pork-runner's fault but rather a failure by the side that was porked to provide a defensive CAP to stop him before he does his dirty porking deed.

Except he probably won't, because in this case the porking issue revolves around something that affects him rather than others.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
If this is the answer, it should be worth a big pile of perks to do resupply runs.

I'd be in favor of this.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Schutt]

I totally disagree with the initial purposal.
Instead of having ord unporkable the fuel should be porkable to 25 % again.

Porked fuel should not mean everyone gets half fuel but instead the amount of fuel available to take with you.

With fuel at 75% max fuel per fighter being 150 Gallons, 50% 100gallons and 25 50 gallons.

I think its totally inappropiate to give 75percent to all, while that is 80gallons on a 109 and 300 gallons (or something around that, not sure of the correct amnount) in a P47.

For bombers use a diffrent value, but same amount for all.

Apart from that the whole base-taking needs a rework in form of front-line-taking together with valueable strats back in the country which dont come back up within minutes so its worthwhile bombing em. Something like having resource points per side, gaining resources with cities, primary and secondary factories, oil fields, mines and resource ships (coming from the off), Storing them in depots.
Once one country runs out it lost and the map gets reset, where loosing resources never hampers any plane availability in general but there are 2 ac factories per country for the 2 most effectively used plane (aka fighters with most kills).

[LePaul]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL Feild ack loves me. Particularly the lazer variety.

But it shouldnt be too surprising that 1 aircraft should be able to take out an ammo bunker in a single pass.

Hell one man with a hand granade or a well placed match could do considerable damage to an ammo bunker or ammo dump.
Ordinance is only slightly volitile when exposed to other exploding things.

Personally I'd like to see chain reaction explosions when the ammo bunkers explode LOL

Heh, I seem to be on that minority that AI ack hones in on lethally too!

Ok, if you want a hand grenade level hardness on ordinance, then lets be fair and make fuel something that can go to zero.  So instead of knocking down Fighter, Vehicle and bomber hangars, lone fighters can prowl the arena and take out fuels everywhere.  Then when this happens, revisit my suggestion about hardening the ordinance....and maybe you'll see my point.

Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed.  Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay.  If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.

Ultimately, I dont care either way.  I'm just pointing out that it seems pretty remarkable one player can bring ord to 0% but fuel cant.

And if, at the worst, Ive pointed out the strat needs a few tweaks, well....cool  

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by LePaul
[...]

Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed.  Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay.  If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.

[...]

Exactly.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by LePaul
Its not about shutting down bombers and preventing hangars elsewhere from being downed.  Its simply a matter of one player having so much affect on the gameplay.  If it took a lot of effort by several people to do it, ok, I could buy that.

One player in a formation of Lancs can take out all of the fighter hangars at most fields.  Do you agree that this, too, represents an unbalanced effect on gameplay?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[LePaul]

Apples and oranges, why are you dragging in buffs and fighter hangars into a ordinance hardening issue?

You're also being very narrow in your scope.   One big buff, at a small airfield, could do what you say.  Not at a larger field.

Get off your anti buff soapbox, that's not what this is about.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by LePaul
Get off your anti buff soapbox, that's not what this is about.

This is not anti-buff, so quit your whining.  What I'm pointing out, and what you completely fail to understand, is that the door swings both ways.  I agree that a single player, by destroying ordnance, can affect gameplay in an unbalanced manner for buffers and jabo folks.  I also recognize that a single person in a formation of Lancs can adversely affect gameplay for those who fly fighters as well.  That's not apples to oranges, and it's impossible for you to claim as much.  These two things clearly go hand-in-hand.

On the bright side for ground attack players, the 110 can fulfill the same roll as most Jabo because it sports an incredibly destructive guns package.  That does not, however, help the level bomber jocks.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by LePaul

  One big buff, at a small airfield, could do what you say.  Not at a larger field.

 

Wrong.

B17's-24, and Lancs can.

[DoKGonZo]

More likely a flight of Lancs would just tear the runways to hell and render the field useless for all air traffic. But that's not important right now ...

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
The problem is that the MA is starting to approach a situation of "Suppose the had a war and nobody came". What I'm observing is that the first "defense" of a threatened sector is to pork ord and troops two levels deep on the attackers side of the lines. This is virtually impossible to prevent, for all the reasons folks have stated here.

Sure, it is good tactics to prevent your attacker from having the resources needed to press his own attack. But what I'm now seeing is that the defenders more or less abandon bases and even whole sectors once the enemy troops are porked. Which tends to make the game rather futile to play for everyone but the pork-runners.

Easiest fix? Reduce the down time on troops and ord to 10 minutes. So, yeah, a Tiffy can neuter a field in two passes - but if it has to all be done again 10 minutes later then they've delayed the offensive, not halted it completely, and the front stays alive.

    -DoK

Actually what I see is the attackers abandon the whole area not the defenders.

Typically those attackers are trying to horde bases that are or are next to undefended.

Me being one that hates the horde warriors upon seeing this make it my solemn duty to up and pork the barracks at as many nearby feilds as possible. Thus forceing the horde to either go to some other undefended area whereby I do it all over again or attack a feild that has at least some sort of defence going for it at which point I leave it alone.

the main problem I have with the hordewarriors is as soon as they meet any kind of real resistance they stop and go someplace where there isnt any.

By porking the troops in areas where there arent any defenders I'm doing them a favor by makin them earn the bases they take as opposed to playing solitare tic tac toe

[DREDIOCK]

I like buffs


when they are burning:)

[Edbert]

Originally posted by stegor
Edbert, you are here from 99, well tell me, can you say this Sim is the same of that time? Is people flying the same manner? Are the players involved in all the aspects of the game like it was?

Not even close my friend, not even close. Most of the changes are for the better though IMHO, the vast majority. When I started there were five or six planes and 50-75 player on during prime time. The only thing better about the game then in my opinion was there was little (none?) of the other players acting like 12 years olds and purposely trying to ruin another player's ability to fly his plane of choice.

Originally posted by stegor

I am not trolling, I see a continuous amount of requests to make fighter fly more easily and safely.
You can't destroy fuel, even harder to destroy Hangar, requests to harden ordnance, requests to harden CV so you can't interrupt planes upping, requests to give less efficacy to naval guns cause they interfere with furballs or something.....this is not a troll.
More this situation generates more confusion trying to compensate things for the "other side complaints", so for hardened structures, we have had a less effective ack..... the result of all this is here, strategy has gone, lonely porkers flying useless missions, bombers unused or used only for NOE missions, suicide mission everywhere, maps stretched, but with airfield neared each other, a cloud of fighters eternally whirling  just above grass..and so on...
Maybe the pattern of the AH player has changed, but how much  can you last playing again and again one  only aspect of the game?

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote there. My only issue with LePaul's request is that he want to make it harder for a lone fighter to take away his ability to carry eggs but does not want to remove the ability for a sinlge buff to take away my ability to fly a fighter.

Again, IN MY OPINION, this is a childish request, and just another indication of how low the sportsmanship aspect of this game has fallen.

EDIT: For the record, in case anyone misunderstood. I do not have a problem with closing the FHs during a field capture attempt (although a strong CAP makes more sense and renders the captured base both useable and defendable) or porking ord to keep a CV alive. Those are legitimate aspects of the strat/land-grab/war-winning game. My issue is with the widespread porking of forward bases just to kill off a front.

[GooseAW]

I've seen alot of great ideas in this thread. MAybe HT can pull some adjustments out of it assuming they agree there is a need.

With more players on most of the time, and a higher level of accuracy on bomb drops, I do believe there is a need for adjustment.

I would caution that the factories only idea is risky because potentially 1 squad could remove ordinance (for example) from and entire country in one good pass. I think the hardness is thre better approach.

A good step was moving the FHs out of line so that 1 formation of B26s can't flatten them in one pass. More is needed however and I hope HT agrees.

[LePaul]

Originally posted by Edbert
I pretty much agree with everything you wrote there. My only issue with LePaul's request is that he want to make it harder for a lone fighter to take away his ability to carry eggs but does not want to remove the ability for a sinlge buff to take away my ability to fly a fighter.

Again, IN MY OPINION, this is a childish request, and just another indication of how low the sportsmanship aspect of this game has fallen.

 

Wow, could you make this a bit *more* of a personal attack?  Please?  I dont quite feel villified completely yet,  Edbert.

Im impresed how you've turned a simple idea for hardening ordinance into how I am now the evil source for all things that make Fighter Hangars go down.  Its a strat discussion.  And clearly, anyone who doesnt agree with you is a very poor sport.  Im sorry to say, that reflects very poorly on yourself.

I mean, call me kooky, but its just a game...and I was just floating a suggestion.  No one here has called you childish or commented on your sportsmanship as a result of your ideas.

Perhaps the old addage "If you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all" should apply?

If you want to comment on the ideas posted, have at.  But if all you intend to do is flame the posters for not agreeing, well...back away from the keyboard, count to 10 and get a grip, dude.