Unperk the Spit14, Ta152H and the F4U-C and the F4U-4!

[storch]

Originally posted by Kev367th
OK Storch What you gonna do when the MA becomes full of P-51B's, Tiffys and 190A-5's?

Kev I could be way off base here as I often am but I suspect we would enjoy more fights. You would find me in a 109E through G2.  let's not forget the awesome (due to it's ubermodelling in AH) 110C4.  true that the runners will still be in La5s and tiffies but a P51B or single popgun G2 will catch the La5 under the right conditions.  The Yaks would be monsters as well.  The people who appreciate the japanese planes will find their principal historic rides much more competetive.  The N1k2 would be a perk ride, that alone makes me smile.  with these conditions I would argue for all late war rides to be represented including the 25# boosted spitfires.  I would suggest that they be perked at the tempest/jet prices though.  the point is that what the arena has evolved into in the last two years is not really very challenging or fun to me and apparently others.  taxation would be a way to keep the people with the inclination to play as many wail bitterly claiming is ruining the game from having a vehicle to do so.  have you read kweassa's wall of text?  I agree with much of what he proposes.  I believe it will improve overall game play especially after the plane set becomes more complete across the board.

[Glasses]

CHogs  leave it Perked.  Ta 152 you can un perk it, it has so many flaws in AH it's not a threat  but unless of course someone competent is flying it. F4U-4 is  another  uber perk monster, Tempest same Hizookas and  uber accel .

BTW The 190 D doesn't perform as well as it did in AH, once you reach 300mph it stays there and it takes on average 7  to 10 minutes to accel to 375,almost every plane in the MA can run it down now, It's no threat to the allied rides like it was in AH1,esp. with a P-47N around the MA.

[DoKGonZo]

I never said to perk all the 1944 planes. But there are some obvious choices of planes which have some level of uberness to them. Some of these are now perked, some aren't.

I think having the Spit16 and Spit14 both cost a 3-5 perks gives people a nice choice and gives the RAF better representation in the MA. The Tempest should still cost a bunch - it's way, way uber. The fall backs are the Spit8, Spit9 - which don't exactly suck in the MA.

I think adding a couple perks to the P51D and dropping the F4U-4 down to under 5 perks is a good trade-off. It gives the USN a good late war plane and also reduces the tendency to use the P51D as a suicide Jabo. The F4U-1C should still cost between 5 and 10 because of the huge ammo load and the ease of HO kills with it. The fallback rides for the US - F6F, F4U-1D, P38's - aren't bad at all.

Bumping the La7 to 2 or 3 perks may get VVS fans looking at the La5 more, which is actually a better handling and more dangerous machine. But I'd say half the La7's I see do nothing but shoot barracks and vultch runways.

For the LW, about the only ride worth perking (not counting the Ta152) is the D9. I'd say charge 2 perks for it now, and 4 when HT gets the FM and the 20mm's fixed. Only real problem is that the A5 and A8 are not competetive so LW fans kind of get the shaft (again) until the Fw series can get worked on.

For the IJA, it's obvious ... the N1K should cost a couple perks. Why perk a plane that ain't very fast? Well it turns great and has buckets of 20mm ammo. So the Ki84 would get more use, and it's quite good in the MA.


Of course, perking The Big Three will set off such a huge torrent of whining that I doubt HT will do it. Which leaves on the option of reducing the cost of the Spit14 and F4U4.

[Gryffin]

Anyone who thinks the F4U-4 should cost less than the F4U-1C is delusional.

The -4 is a monster, one of the best piston engined fighters in the game, while the -1C is a pig that happens to have good guns.

I am with grits, if the -4 was free, it is the only plane I would fly.

[bozon]

I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.

What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH!

We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).

Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.

Bozon

[storch]

Originally posted by bozon
I really don't like the direction AH is moving. My only hope is that TOD or another MA will save it.

What people cry for and get, is more and more. Later, faster, bigger guns and we end up with MA common planeset representing the last weeks of WWII. BLAH!

We have 1939 planes with max speed close to the stall speed of 1945 planes.
We have 2/3 of the planeset competative in the Hangar Queen pageant.
We have perk points and nothing to spend them on.
We have ENY values that apart from blobking usage on a severe population imbalance are meaninngless (see perks).

Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.

Bozon

this post pretty much nails it for me.

[Morpheus]

You know,(I can't beleive I am going to say this) the more and more I think about things in the MA, the more I think perking all of the late war monsters might not be such a bad idea. Things have gotten very stagnant. Many people dont know how fun it can be to fly a 109E or F, or a P40 E or B. There are far too many planes in the hanger that don't get used because the alternatives, (the P51, spit16, tiffy, Nik, 109D just to name a few) are far more apealing. Perking them wouldnt restrict the use of the late war planes, rather I think it would encourage the use of many of the early war planes that see very little usage. This should hold true for bombers as well... How many missions of Ju87's do you see? When you compare that to the number of heavy P51 missions?

Variety shouldnt be forced, but it can be encouraged. And IMO what the MA is lacking most is just that, variety. Perking some of the most heavily used planes would IMO encourage more variety in planes flown in the MA.

Just how they should be perked is another story... Maybe perk the 51D half as much as the Chog... Say 4 perks... Same for the Tiffy, and then 2 perks for the Spit16... ect ect... But I do think its worth looking in to.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
I never said to perk all the 1944 planes. But there are some obvious choices of planes which have some level of uberness to them. Some of these are now perked, some aren't.

I think having the Spit16 and Spit14 both cost a 3-5 perks gives people a nice choice and gives the RAF better representation in the MA. The Tempest should still cost a bunch - it's way, way uber. The fall backs are the Spit8, Spit9 - which don't exactly suck in the MA.

I think adding a couple perks to the P51D and dropping the F4U-4 down to under 5 perks is a good trade-off. It gives the USN a good late war plane and also reduces the tendency to use the P51D as a suicide Jabo. The F4U-1C should still cost between 5 and 10 because of the huge ammo load and the ease of HO kills with it. The fallback rides for the US - F6F, F4U-1D, P38's - aren't bad at all.

Bumping the La7 to 2 or 3 perks may get VVS fans looking at the La5 more, which is actually a better handling and more dangerous machine. But I'd say half the La7's I see do nothing but shoot barracks and vultch runways.

For the LW, about the only ride worth perking (not counting the Ta152) is the D9. I'd say charge 2 perks for it now, and 4 when HT gets the FM and the 20mm's fixed. Only real problem is that the A5 and A8 are not competetive so LW fans kind of get the shaft (again) until the Fw series can get worked on.

For the IJA, it's obvious ... the N1K should cost a couple perks. Why perk a plane that ain't very fast? Well it turns great and has buckets of 20mm ammo. So the Ki84 would get more use, and it's quite good in the MA.


Of course, perking The Big Three will set off such a huge torrent of whining that I doubt HT will do it. Which leaves on the option of reducing the cost of the Spit14 and F4U4.

Why the XVI?

This would mean the only free ANYTHING RAF would be 1943 (VIII and Tiffy) and earlier.
Or are we not allowed any 1944 or later FREE planes like every other major planeset would still have?
You want a better RAF representation in the MA, sounds more like an inferior (performance wise) representation to me.
Or remove the 50cals from the XVI give it .303's and rename it as an 1943 LF IX. But oh, I guess you'd want that perked also.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by bozon
Is it time to create a second areana? where the Mosquito is actually a fast ride, bombers are more effective than JABOs at destroying stuff, 190s are formidable fighters, C202 can duke it out with spit V and P40s are not laughed at. Maybe even the stuka will see some use when its carring capacity is appreciated.
And no, this is not the CT which is too limiting for too many people.

Don't know why you think the CT is too limiting for too many people.  We're running the Tunisia 42/43 setup right now (stop by!).  Our sense has been that the "limitation" of the CT is that most people don't really want to fly the pre-1945 planes.

- oldman

[Morpheus]

Daaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmit I hate to agree with  Kweassas
perk everything late war idea.

But perking all the late war Rides Kev, you wouldnt have to worry about thing's being unfair for the brit planes... A P40E is comparable to a Spit5 now, and so is the 109F4.... If you wanted more of a challenge you could take the Spit1, or the P40B, or the 109E.

And MA FILLED with variety...  Those that want to spend a few perks to dominate can do so...

When I think of how much fun it would be if the MA werent filled to the brim with Spit16s, La7's, Tiffys, 51s, Niks.... I want to log in and go flying. When I think of the MA now, I think of La7s, spit16s, Niks, 51s, 190D9s, Tiffys.... All fast late war monsters... How many people log in and choose the best, fastest, most powerful FREE plane in the set? I think its safe to say the vast majority.

A perfect example is when the MA goes down and players migrate to the Backup MA. Where everything is free... What you have in there at that point is a massive glob of red and green all in Tempests and 262s running back and forth vulching at the speed of light. Everything is free, yet, they naturally choose the best, fastest, strongest planes in the set... Human nature really.

[Kev367th]

Morph I totally agree.
The ONLY free plane the RAF would lose is the XVI.

But the US/LW loses 60% of their planesets if 1944 onwards are perked, due to the heavy bias towards late war US/LW rides.

Like I said I'm all for it, but I can guess most US/LW fans wouldn't feel the same way.

In fact the the Spit VIII would be dream in that scenario , and it wouldn't be long before the 'perk the Spit VIII' whines started.

Think about it - take the XVI, add normal tips, change 50cals for 303's, add retractible tailwheel and wing tanks...viola you've got an VIII. Everything else is identical (most importantly, same motor).
In fact theres no reason you couldn't have a clipped VIII, most people don't realise how close the XVI and VIII really are.

[MINNOW]

Unperk the 152, Perk the Spit 16...

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by MINNOW
Unperk the 152, Perk the Spit 16...

Makes you wonder what would happen if the RAF actually got a FREE Spit at 1944 performance levels, or god forbid a FREE 1945 Spit.

i.e. LF IX @ 25lbs (May 44), F XIV @ 21lbs (July 44), LF XVI @ 25lbs (Dec 1944/Jan 45), F.21 (Mar 1945)

[SirLoin]

Originally posted by Morpheus
You know,(I can't beleive I am going to say this) the more and more I think about things in the MA, the more I think perking all of the late war monsters might not be such a bad idea. Things have gotten very stagnant. Many people dont know how fun it can be to fly a 109E or F, or a P40 E or B. There are far too many planes in the hanger that don't get used because the alternatives, (the P51, spit16, tiffy, Nik, 109D just to name a few) are far more apealing. Perking them wouldnt restrict the use of the late war planes, rather I think it would encourage the use of many of the early war planes that see very little usage. This should hold true for bombers as well... How many missions of Ju87's do you see? When you compare that to the number of heavy P51 missions?

Variety shouldnt be forced, but it can be encouraged. And IMO what the MA is lacking most is just that, variety. Perking some of the most heavily used planes would IMO encourage more variety in planes flown in the MA.

Just how they should be perked is another story... Maybe perk the 51D half as much as the Chog... Say 4 perks... Same for the Tiffy, and then 2 perks for the Spit16... ect ect... But I do think its worth looking in to.

With ya all da way Morphy!..

[Swager]

Where is that dead horse when you need to beat one?