Observations on 109s' revisited

[tikky]

Originally posted by ghi
Yep, i talked with a friend  about AH, he plays IL2/Fb for long time, he liked the idea of huge arena with 400-500 players, He  suscribed to AH, but was disapoited.
After he played for a while ,his impresion was  the: " LW planes are ridiculos undermodeled , ", He canceled AH acount.

i go to Hyperlobby to play then asked about the *Aces High* experience...  They say Russian planes in AH are same as in IL-2FB/AEP/PAC Fighters ect. Then i asked him about german planes in AH compared to IL2... he said its waaay *fubared*

[Grits]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
So what are they gonna do have AI axis planes to make up the difference in numbers?

Yes. I wouldnt be suprized to see Axis 70-80% AI for the reasons you stated.

[Urchin]

When are you all going to realize that the planes aren't undermodelled?  

They were never used for "knife fighting" in real life, why would you expect that they would be good at it in the game?  They are modelled as accurately as HTC can manage.  

As far as firepower goes, yes, the LW gets the short end of the stick as far as the ammo modelling, but it really isn't that big a deal.

[Grits]

I dont think the LW are undermodelled. I also dont think very many will fly them in ToD.

[Urchin]

I believe you are probably right, but I think that has more to do with the fact that people don't want to play for the "bad guys" than the fact that the planes are "undermodelled".  

Hell, there hasn't been any organized high alt stuff in AH since the 8th AF event a few years back.  That was in AH1.  I doubt anyone really has any idea how any plane stacks up against any other plane at 20k+, simply because nobody flies that high.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Grits
Yes. I wouldnt be suprized to see Axis 70-80% AI for the reasons you stated.

Cant you already get something like that at your local "Software Etc" store?

[Grits]

Yes, and that is exactly the audience they want to get Dred, box game folks. They are not making ToD for us, we already play AH, they want the box game people that dont like unstructured non-RPG stuff like the MA (or even the CT or Scenarios).

I would be shocked if after the "new" wears off more than a handful of current AH players stay with ToD.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Urchin
When are you all going to realize that the planes aren't undermodelled?  

They were never used for "knife fighting" in real life, why would you expect that they would be good at it in the game?  They are modelled as accurately as HTC can manage.  

As far as firepower goes, yes, the LW gets the short end of the stick as far as the ammo modelling, but it really isn't that big a deal.

Personally I think flight charactoristics are slightly undermodeled. Not alot as some would suggest. But enough to make a difference.

But even omitting that. lets not forget about the view also.
No way. NO WAY on this earth can anyone convince me the visability was that poor. particularly in the 109s and 190s

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Grits

I would be shocked if after the "new" wears off more than a handful of current AH players stay with ToD.

On that I would agree.
If I wanted to play against AI I'd buy a boxed game off the shelf.
Playing against REAL people is the primary attraction.

AI would be better served if there were offline missions that people can use for practice. IMO

[storch]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Unfortunately because its a dead horse is exactly why I dont have great faith in TOD as much as I would really like to

Really no disrespect ment to HTC but without balanced play and planes that you can see out of, manuver in and worth flying in the bottom line is you just arent going to get that many people willing to fly LW planes.

So what are they gonna do have AI axis planes to make up the difference in numbers?

dont get me wrong I hope TOD is a huge success because I think the game is in need of something different.

I just dont see it happening with the way the LW planes are being done down.

Thats just my opinion

I won't play TOD for the same reason I quit playing FSO.  who wants to be a target for the ackllied easymoders?  I sure don't.  The reason I play AH is because the playability is better but as far as modelling and realism goes, you can't beat IL-2 on hyperlobby.  that is probably the most accurately modelling in a flight game.  I keep hoping some german geeks will put together a MMOG to compete with AH but this is such a niche market that it will probably never happen.  but judging from everything I've ever gotten from germany, they will get it right across the board.

[bozon]

well, if LW planes are better in IL2, then AH must be off.

some logic...

Perhaps they are, perhaps they dont. I fail to see how IL2 is any greater authority on real planes performance than AH.

Bozon

[storch]

typical easymoder response bozon.

[Slash27]

Originally posted by bozon
well, if LW planes are better in IL2, then AH must be off.

some logic...

Perhaps they are, perhaps they dont. I fail to see how IL2 is any greater authority on real planes performance than AH.

Bozon

 

He's trying to justify why he cant grasp how to fly LW rides in AH Bozon.

[bozon]

Originally posted by storch
typical easymoder response bozon.

BBS posting rule # 26:
In case of a lack of good response, attack the poster.

[gatt]

Originally posted by wetrat
the real LW aces (well, most of them) didn't dogfight unless they had to. Some of them did (read The Blonde Knight), but plenty more were "cherry picking sissies." The most notable "cherry picking sissy" being Hartmann. In his book (The Blonde Knight), he says several times that he avoided dogfights as much as possible. Avoiding fights and cherry picking are two things our AH 109's can do superbly

Actually, the most part of real WW2 fighter pilots was made of so called "cherrypickers". Axis and Allied. Even Saburo Sakai replied with a surprised "hell, why?" to someone asking him how was dogfighting low and slow with the Zeke against american fighters.


I remember Scenarios Lite in Warbirds I and II when we had to fill allied slots becouse everybody wanted to fly axis. But ... in the old Warbirds the FW was a FW and a 109G could stay on the tail of a P-51D up to medium-high speeds.

If I'm not wrong no one is saiyng that a 109K should close dogfight with a Spit XVI. What I'm saying is that with such an axis plane set modelling the TOD will be (probably) a flop.

I'm curious to see the next european 1944-45 scenario. I mean a Defence of the Reich scenario, with high flying heavy bombers escorted by late P-51 and P-47. I'm really interested in hearing what our (porked) G-14, K-4 with the 30mm and "incredible" 190A-8 will be able to do. Better, a 1943-44 western europe scenario with new Spitfires against our uber G-6, G-14 and 190s