F-86 & Mig-15

[Karnak]

Anybody know and on-line jet games with Migs and such aircraft.

Not much of a market as PvP in modern aircraft isn't nearly as fun.  Missiles really take that out of it and guns aren't fun at those speeds.

[Glasses]

Not much of a market as PvP in modern aircraft isn't nearly as fun.  Missiles really take that out of it and guns aren't fun at those speeds.

For Modern Jets Probably, Post war Jet combat I beg to differ.

[Karnak]

For Modern Jets Probably, Post war Jet combat I beg to differ.

That isn't as bad, but is still boring as <bleep> due to the high speeds.

[321BAR]

That isn't as bad, but is still boring as <bleep> due to the high speeds.

idk about you but i love the feeling of a 262 duel its unlike no other fight in the game...the adrenaline pumping through my veins kills me afterwards

[gyrene81]

For Modern Jets Probably, Post war Jet combat I beg to differ.

I dare you to name one other than flight sim X that is played or playable online PC or console using the Korea war era AC...it's only appeal is an initial "cool factor" until someone comes along with no clue about air to air combat at mach1 + and says, "hey I would like to see a........jet arena". The bandwagon is short lived once the air to air radar and heat seeking missiles at mach2 start coming out...and the Korean war era jets won't be any different...imagine a 700mph HO shot at 30k.

[321BAR]

I dare you to name one other than flight sim X that is played or playable online PC or console using the Korea war era AC...it's only appeal is an initial "cool factor" until someone comes along with no clue about air to air combat at mach1 + and says, "hey I would like to see a........jet arena". The bandwagon is short lived once the air to air radar and heat seeking missiles at mach2 start coming out...and the Korean war era jets won't be any different...imagine a 700mph HO shot at 30k.

these jets wouldnt fire until they saw the jet closer... many dogfights in Korea were within a mile or two of each other... and the 30mil was the main gun and would be used just as a WWII gun, LEAD THE TARGET!!! and also, i'd take a 30k ho that lasts 1 second over the WWI HO of 30 seconds at 1k

[gyrene81]

these jets wouldnt fire until they saw the jet closer... many dogfights in Korea were within a mile or two of each other... and the 30mil was the main gun and would be used just as a WWII gun, LEAD THE TARGET!!! and also, i'd take a 30k ho that lasts 1 second over the WWI HO of 30 seconds at 1k

Where do you guys get this 30mm b.s.? Do yourself a favor 321Bar...don't pay attention to what glasses is spouting.

F-86 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (1,602 rounds in total)
    * Rockets: variety of rocket launchers; e.g: 2 × Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each
    * Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders
    * Bombs: 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of payload on four external hardpoints, bombs are usually mounted on outer two pylons as the inner pairs are wet-plumbed pylons for 2 × 200 gallons drop tanks to give the Sabre a useful range. A wide variety of bombs can be carried (max standard loadout being 2 × 1,000 lb bombs plus 2 drop tanks), napalm bomb canisters and can include a tactical nuclear weapon.



P-80 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (300 rpg)
    * Rockets: 8 × unguided rockets
    * Bombs: 2 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs


MiG15 Armament

    * 2x NR-23 23mm cannons in lower left fuselage (80 rounds per gun, 160 rounds total)
    * 1x Nudelman N-37 37 mm cannon in lower right fuselage (40 rounds total)
    * 2x 100 kg (220 lb) bombs, drop tanks, or unguided rockets on underwing hardpoints.

[Glasses]

I dare you to name one other than flight sim X that is played or playable online PC or console using the Korea war era AC...it's only appeal is an initial "cool factor" until someone comes along with no clue about air to air combat at mach1 + and says, "hey I would like to see a........jet arena". The bandwagon is short lived once the air to air radar and heat seeking missiles at mach2 start coming out...and the Korean war era jets won't be any different...imagine a 700mph HO shot at 30k.

No clue about air combat, you say. See my registration date.  

The reason you don't see many jet combat sims is because, the flightsim market has been shrinking faster than a male appendage in the artic tundra during the last

couple of years.

The cool argument is again, not relevant  the same could be said about any games out there, cool factor is a high motivation why people play games, if we didn't think it

was cool or fun  we wouldn't pay ,play  or find them aesthetically pleasing.

Someone lectured about history yet in 1950 there was no widespread use of a-a missiles or mach 2 combat(as combat planes wouldn't regurlarly reach those speeds  

until the 60s). Most was subsonic at best and fairly in range of WW2 engagements.

[Glasses]

Where do you guys get this 30mm b.s.? Do yourself a favor 321Bar...don't pay attention to what glasses is spouting.

F-86 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (1,602 rounds in total)
    * Rockets: variety of rocket launchers; e.g: 2 × Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each
    * Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders
    * Bombs: 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of payload on four external hardpoints, bombs are usually mounted on outer two pylons as the inner pairs are wet-plumbed pylons for 2 × 200 gallons drop tanks to give the Sabre a useful range. A wide variety of bombs can be carried (max standard loadout being 2 × 1,000 lb bombs plus 2 drop tanks), napalm bomb canisters and can include a tactical nuclear weapon.






P-80 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (300 rpg)
    * Rockets: 8 × unguided rockets
    * Bombs: 2 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs


MiG15 Armament

    * 2x NR-23 23mm cannons in lower left fuselage (80 rounds per gun, 160 rounds total)
    * 1x Nudelman N-37 37 mm cannon in lower right fuselage (40 rounds total)
    * 2x 100 kg (220 lb) bombs, drop tanks, or unguided rockets on underwing hardpoints.

Yes you hear about those Sabre sidewinder kills in Korea all the time.  


The first Kill of a Sidewinder equipped Sabre was in 1958.


Sabres and MiGs were shortly to battle each other in the skies of Asia once again in the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis. In August 1958, the Chinese Communists of the People's Republic of China attempted to force the Nationalists off of the islands of Quemoy and Matsu by shelling and blockade. Nationalist F-86Fs flying CAP over the islands found themselves confronted by Communist MiG-15s and MiG-17s, and there were numerous dogfights.

During these battles, the Nationalist Sabres introduced a new element into aerial warfare. Under a secret effort designated Operation Black Magic, the US Navy had provided the ROC with the AIM-9 Sidewinder, its first infrared-homing air-to-air missile, which was just entering service with the United States. A small team from VMF-323, a Marine FJ-4 Fury squadron with later assistance from China Lake and North American Aviation, initially modified 20 of the F-86 Sabres to carry a pair of Sidewinders on underwing launch rails and instructed the ROC pilots in their use flying profiles with USAF F-100s simulating the MiG-17. The MiGs enjoyed an altitude advantage over the Sabres, as they had in Korea, and Communist Chinese MiGs routinely cruised over the Nationalist Sabres, only engaging when they had a favorable position. The Sidewinder took away that advantage and proved to be devastatingly effective against the MiGs.

The combat introduction of the Sidewinder took place in a battle on 24 September 1958 when ROC Sabres succeeded in destroying 10 MiGs and scoring two probables without loss to themselves. In one month of air battles over Quemoy and Matsu, Nationalist pilots tallied a score of no less than 31 MiGs destroyed and eight probables, against a loss of two F-84Gs and no Sabres. The data comes from Nationalist Air Force filmed data

From the same Wikipedia article you keep quoting. Half truths...Gee who would have figured.

[321BAR]

Where do you guys get this 30mm b.s.? Do yourself a favor 321Bar...don't pay attention to what glasses is spouting.

F-86 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (1,602 rounds in total)
    * Rockets: variety of rocket launchers; e.g: 2 × Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each
    * Missiles: 2× AIM-9 Sidewinders
    * Bombs: 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of payload on four external hardpoints, bombs are usually mounted on outer two pylons as the inner pairs are wet-plumbed pylons for 2 × 200 gallons drop tanks to give the Sabre a useful range. A wide variety of bombs can be carried (max standard loadout being 2 × 1,000 lb bombs plus 2 drop tanks), napalm bomb canisters and can include a tactical nuclear weapon.



P-80 Armament

    * Guns: 6 × 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (300 rpg)
    * Rockets: 8 × unguided rockets
    * Bombs: 2 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs


MiG15 Armament

    * 2x NR-23 23mm cannons in lower left fuselage (80 rounds per gun, 160 rounds total)
    * 1x Nudelman N-37 37 mm cannon in lower right fuselage (40 rounds total)
    * 2x 100 kg (220 lb) bombs, drop tanks, or unguided rockets on underwing hardpoints.

bah... i knew i was wrong but the point was made too lazy to look at the real armaments

[Glasses]

bah... i knew i was wrong but the point was made too lazy to look at the real armaments

No you were actually close the first time around. See what I pasted.  


Unless those were heat seeking, radar,laser guided bullets, you would still need someone in the cockpit to aim,pull lead, and shoot the guns. Which you need to do same as

the previous war.

[321BAR]

No you were actually close the first time around. See what I pasted. 

huh?

[Glasses]

Yes you hear about those Sabre sidewinder kills in Korea all the time.  


The first Kill of a Sidewinder equipped Sabre was in 1958.


Sabres and MiGs were shortly to battle each other in the skies of Asia once again in the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis. In August 1958, the Chinese Communists of the People's Republic of China attempted to force the Nationalists off of the islands of Quemoy and Matsu by shelling and blockade. Nationalist F-86Fs flying CAP over the islands found themselves confronted by Communist MiG-15s and MiG-17s, and there were numerous dogfights.

During these battles, the Nationalist Sabres introduced a new element into aerial warfare. Under a secret effort designated Operation Black Magic, the US Navy had provided the ROC with the AIM-9 Sidewinder, its first infrared-homing air-to-air missile, which was just entering service with the United States. A small team from VMF-323, a Marine FJ-4 Fury squadron with later assistance from China Lake and North American Aviation, initially modified 20 of the F-86 Sabres to carry a pair of Sidewinders on underwing launch rails and instructed the ROC pilots in their use flying profiles with USAF F-100s simulating the MiG-17. The MiGs enjoyed an altitude advantage over the Sabres, as they had in Korea, and Communist Chinese MiGs routinely cruised over the Nationalist Sabres, only engaging when they had a favorable position. The Sidewinder took away that advantage and proved to be devastatingly effective against the MiGs.

The combat introduction of the Sidewinder took place in a battle on 24 September 1958 when ROC Sabres succeeded in destroying 10 MiGs and scoring two probables without loss to themselves. In one month of air battles over Quemoy and Matsu, Nationalist pilots tallied a score of no less than 31 MiGs destroyed and eight probables, against a loss of two F-84Gs and no Sabres. The data comes from Nationalist Air Force filmed data

From the same Wikipedia article you keep quoting. Half truths...Gee who would have figured.

this

[321BAR]

how does this...

Yes you hear about those Sabre sidewinder kills in Korea all the time.  


The first Kill of a Sidewinder equipped Sabre was in 1958.


Sabres and MiGs were shortly to battle each other in the skies of Asia once again in the Second Taiwan Strait Crisis. In August 1958, the Chinese Communists of the People's Republic of China attempted to force the Nationalists off of the islands of Quemoy and Matsu by shelling and blockade. Nationalist F-86Fs flying CAP over the islands found themselves confronted by Communist MiG-15s and MiG-17s, and there were numerous dogfights.

During these battles, the Nationalist Sabres introduced a new element into aerial warfare. Under a secret effort designated Operation Black Magic, the US Navy had provided the ROC with the AIM-9 Sidewinder, its first infrared-homing air-to-air missile, which was just entering service with the United States. A small team from VMF-323, a Marine FJ-4 Fury squadron with later assistance from China Lake and North American Aviation, initially modified 20 of the F-86 Sabres to carry a pair of Sidewinders on underwing launch rails and instructed the ROC pilots in their use flying profiles with USAF F-100s simulating the MiG-17. The MiGs enjoyed an altitude advantage over the Sabres, as they had in Korea, and Communist Chinese MiGs routinely cruised over the Nationalist Sabres, only engaging when they had a favorable position. The Sidewinder took away that advantage and proved to be devastatingly effective against the MiGs.

The combat introduction of the Sidewinder took place in a battle on 24 September 1958 when ROC Sabres succeeded in destroying 10 MiGs and scoring two probables without loss to themselves. In one month of air battles over Quemoy and Matsu, Nationalist pilots tallied a score of no less than 31 MiGs destroyed and eight probables, against a loss of two F-84Gs and no Sabres. The data comes from Nationalist Air Force filmed data

From the same Wikipedia article you keep quoting. Half truths...Gee who would have figured.

lead to this...

these jets wouldnt fire until they saw the jet closer... many dogfights in Korea were within a mile or two of each other... and the 30mil was the main gun and would be used just as a WWII gun, LEAD THE TARGET!!! and also, i'd take a 30k ho that lasts 1 second over the WWI HO of 30 seconds at 1k

i wasnt "right" about anything... and i was just trying to point out something

[Glasses]

how does this...lead to this...i wasnt "right" about anything... and i was just trying to point out something

Which would be? The ranges were about the same as WW2 the speeds probably higher. There were no A-A missiles, the rockets were used for ground attack and perhaps for interception of bombers, R4M style like  the Me262.

BTW I posted that before you did your post,I just re pasted it  He failed to mention in his "correction" of his vast knowledge of air warfare, that the missiles weren't used
until at least 5

years after the Korean War had concluded.


The 37mm cannon was not in fact the primary weapon as it was used mainly  to shoot down bombers, the 23mm cannon did however have better ballistics,and rate of fire to shoot about anything out of the skies.  Think the ballistic differences between the Mk108 and MG151.



Spouting....Don't let facts get in the way of half truths. Forum trench mentality