Author Topic: Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release  (Read 10895 times)

Offline F4UDOA

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1731
      • http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markw4/index.html
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #135 on: February 17, 2006, 03:28:41 PM »
Well then that is different:D

Just please don't mistake the F4U for one of those Army types. It cannot be compared in the low speed realm to land based fighters. They do not have the same criteria for stability.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 03:31:07 PM by F4UDOA »

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #136 on: February 17, 2006, 03:30:59 PM »
By definition ALL controls on any airplane are always "effective" until the stall.

The question is "how effective". ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Apar

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #137 on: February 17, 2006, 03:33:32 PM »
Deleted for flame
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 04:16:15 PM by hitech »

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #138 on: February 17, 2006, 04:31:50 PM »
"1943-45 TODs will be the proof about how instable are our 109s at the edge of the flight envelope and how our 190A are not able to do their job against bombers at high alts."

Its funny how they have been doing just that in countless Squad Ops, Scenarios, and Snapshots for years now.

As if Combat Theater is going to be the first time the historical opponents have fought each other in AH in a single life historical mission setup, what do you think the Special Events Arena is, a spare MA?
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #139 on: February 17, 2006, 05:23:36 PM »
Let's just say that ToD/CT would never work without these AI pilots being developed, because 90% of the players are going to be allied, they will need something to shoot -- viola! you have AI pilots to shoot now!.

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #140 on: February 17, 2006, 06:08:12 PM »
From the rumors I heard, they had to tone down the AI pilots because they were better than 99% of the player base. Irregardless of what they're flying.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Urchin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5517
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #141 on: February 17, 2006, 06:10:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
"1943-45 TODs will be the proof about how instable are our 109s at the edge of the flight envelope and how our 190A are not able to do their job against bombers at high alts."

Its funny how they have been doing just that in countless Squad Ops, Scenarios, and Snapshots for years now.

As if Combat Theater is going to be the first time the historical opponents have fought each other in AH in a single life historical mission setup, what do you think the Special Events Arena is, a spare MA?


I don't think there has ever actually been a large scale recreation of the Western Front air war in AH.  The closest we've come was the 8th AF event a few years ago, but even then the Allies did NoE raids for several targets.

I am looking forward to ToD though, I will probably reup my account when it comes out.

Offline gatt

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2006, 06:57:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Squire
"1943-45 TODs will be the proof about how instable are our 109s at the edge of the flight envelope and how our 190A are not able to do their job against bombers at high alts."

Its funny how they have been doing just that in countless Squad Ops, Scenarios, and Snapshots for years now.

As if Combat Theater is going to be the first time the historical opponents have fought each other in AH in a single life historical mission setup, what do you think the Special Events Arena is, a spare MA?


What can you expect from a (take a deep breath) Spitfire ace? LOL :rofl
"And one of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi C.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of italian styling and german engineering .... it really was a delight to fly ... and we did tests on it and were most impressed." - Captain Eric Brown

Offline SuperDud

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4589
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #143 on: February 17, 2006, 08:00:13 PM »
a virtual spitfire ace. remember boys this isnt real. its just pixels and you arent really valiant luftweiny heros:aok

some of u guys get wound real tight over this.
SuperDud
++Blue Knights++

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8804
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #144 on: February 17, 2006, 08:12:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mister Fork
Frazzled, I tried the G-14 this time, hammering, and again, she wallowed for around 5-10 seconds before I regained control.  I could no longer rely on this method for my combat maneuvers.


I have noticed that the 109s, especially the late war models, have very poor yaw control at low speeds. This is something new, or at least new to me. I see this especially when maneuvering inverted...

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Bruno

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1252
      • http://4jg53.org
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #145 on: February 17, 2006, 08:14:33 PM »
Quote
I don't think there has ever actually been a large scale recreation of the Western Front air war in AH. The closest we've come was the 8th AF event a few years ago, but even then the Allies did NoE raids for several targets.

I am looking forward to ToD though, I will probably reup my account when it comes out.


They did Big Week and Ruhr.

In Big Week they had P-51bs, P-47D-11s and P-38Ls.

I didn't fly Ruhr, I was assisting the CMs, so I don't recall the plane set.  They also did that Sicily event where it was basically the same plane set. I didn't fly that one due to the stupid 'lottery'.

Judging how a plane is modeled has nothing to do with KD or score in an event. You and I flew together in Big Week in A-8s at 27k and killed plenty of Allied planes, bombers, P-51s, P-38s and D-11s but the A-8 was hardly the superior performer at 25-27k as you well know.

When AG and I flew in the Norway / Tirpitz event we flew F-8s NOE out hunting allied shipping. With our bombs still on we were bounced by a squad of F6Fs and we shot them all down without a loss. Again the F-8 is not a dominant aircraft nor we were the most skilled players.

There have been plenty of ToDs (now Squad Ops) Snapshots etc... with LW vs Late war western allies, many times it was just the A-5 and G-6 vr the P-38L and P-51b and the LW always did well as I remember it...

With time and experience in any plane, regardless of how well or how poorly its modeled, a player eventually learns to hold his own.

I can get kills in the AH G-14 that doesn't change the fact its as much as 24 mph to slow at FTH... or that in flops far worse then any other plane in the game.

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #146 on: February 17, 2006, 08:26:57 PM »
Flew plenty of times as Axis in Squad Ops, while you were in the MA.

As far as claiming to be an "ace"? I will leave that to you "tough guy".

:D
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline Glasses

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1811
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #147 on: February 17, 2006, 11:53:48 PM »
There was an article on one of those auto magazines; Think the article was called  " A Tale of two mustangs" a Guy who was a multimillionare and owned several cars a racing team and Vintage Mustangs, a P-51D and a Jet.

He did say that when he had to commute to races he used his Pony instead of the Jet since the Pony was much more economic n terms of fuel than the Jet.

He did say however when asked  who would win in a drag race between a Mustang Car and the airplane. He responded to the former it wasn't because the airplane was slow, but because during take off he was told by his intructor to slowly ad power to the airplane, giving it too much power  on take off meant a ground loop out of the runway and he would lose control.

A  2k hp engine on an airplane standing still on the runway and a tail dragger has to deal with gyro precession,torque,spiraling slipstream, among others, it isn't until the airplane has reached an adequate airspeed tht they could raise the tail,which would have obtained enough lift to be controlled by this flight surface, most of the time the pilot has to be centered on the runway with the tail close on the ground  and then  lift it up slowly and adding power as well.


Some are saying that AH would need a super computer to run an accurate FM with real time physics, yet some airplanes like the LW birds perform like they have an exagerated disadvantage to help planes that are iconic, for their "supossed superiority" to give a bit more of an advantage.

A game like this who is based in the states and has the "W0N T3H W4R"  P_51 D mustang crowd could do everything. It wouldn't be very profitable for AH's longevity if it  actually took some grey matter to manage some of the most iconic allied rides , since the LW birds are seen as the evil fanatic aircraft they're suppossed to lose no matter what, unless the pilot is a Nathbot that performs well in any plane,and I don't claim to be one but I do  very well in the LW rides, but there's no way whatsoever to reverse  a plane that has no vices at any  flight condition against a LW ride, heck an F4U  with just enough speed can even out turn spits while using flaps same goes for the P_51; and the only plane that can make planes like these get into a disadvantageous position in AH are and always will be other allied rides.  

Apparently the only  way those 50k allied aircrews died against the LW, where from exposure to Polio, Tuberculosis,and Anthrax,from screwing the farmer's Sheep .   :D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 12:08:13 AM by Glasses »

Offline Glasses

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1811
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #148 on: February 18, 2006, 12:06:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA
Well then that is different:D

Just please don't mistake the F4U for one of those Army types. It cannot be compared in the low speed realm to land based fighters. They do not have the same criteria for stability.


F4U Doa the Hog wasn't known for being an Ensign Eliminator for nothing,epsecially having a slow aceleration and a large amount of left turning tendencies  at high angles of attack and low airspeedI don't think even in airshows today you see many F4Us going full vertical at 50mph and hanging there on their props , in AH1 the F4U was a respected aircraft, meaning it needed some skill to fly due its low speed instability, now in AH2 it's as easy as any plane with white and red stars, and multicolored roundels.


I don't want the LW aircraft to over perform I just want them to have an accurate performance as it relates to its contemporaries, not the complete discrepency that we have now that some aircraft that were know for having certain limits on their performance exceed in many ways over aircraft that had distinct advantages in certain aspect of flight.

Offline Guppy35

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 20388
Will 109s and Fw-190s be fixed before ToD release
« Reply #149 on: February 18, 2006, 12:36:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Glasses


Apparently the only  way those 50k allied aircrews died against the LW, where from exposure to Polio, Tuberculosis,and Anthrax,from screwing the farmer's Sheep .   :D


You use that number alot Glasses.  Are you suggesting those were all lost to LW fighters?  I would suggest that a larger portion of those losses were to flak then to fighter attack.

Does that mean the 70,000 LW aircrew losses from 39-44 were all to Allied fighters?  Kinda doubt that too.  The number from LW Quartermaster-General figures found in Luftwaffe War Diaries.  They didn't include the 1945 numbers.

Bottom line is I think there are better ways to present an argument then that.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters