Mr.Fish-
I assumed that you could draw a conclusion from my points.
posted 08-01-2001 12:58 AM
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the question was :
does the monk go to hell?
your "answer" was:
"It doesn't matter what I am ok with, that is the problem.(that's not an answer) The point to accepting Jesus is your Savior is that you recognize His control in your life.(that's not an answer and contains two buzzphrases) If you do not allow God to control your life, you are not following Him.(that's closer but no cigar still and ripe with rhetoric) If you do not follow Him, you cannot join Him in heaven.(so where do you go if you dont join him - almost an answer, you were close there)
No Christian cheers when anyone follows the road to destruction.(the buddhist monk in my example was on a road to destruction?) Even God states in scripture it is His will that all be saved.(so whats the purpose of creating evil as an option is it a game where the losers suffer for eternity?) The trouble there is He gave everyone the choice.(still no answer)
That was my mistake, I suppose. Admit it, you didn't want a conversation, you wanted to score points. That still is your point. Now you are insinuating I am just posturing for you. Seems to me you have a chip on your shoulder and I was just stupid enough to knock it off. Your contempt for Christianity drips from every word you write.
You insult my God, expect me to accept your interpretation of my God, and think I am being pompous for not doing so. Sorry if that upsets you, but that is pretty much the way I read you at the moment. Nothing you have said, not one word, is any new argument against Christianity. If I fall back on rhetoric you have surely done the same.
Yes, I think about my friends and family in eternal damnation. I don't want that. That is why I talk to them about God. Getting upset at God about it won't change the truth about it, will it?
The Pure Monk will spend eternity in Hell if he doesn't repent. I don't know how many ways I can say it, but it doesn't matter how I feel about it- it changes nothing.
Being a Christian doesn't mean turning off your logic BTW- it does require logic be coupled with faith. Albert Einstein once said "the more I know, the more I know I don't know." Sometimes you have to accept on faith there are truths out there you don't fully understand.
I'm sure I don't overestimate your intelligence so much that I was wrong to present parables as an example- parables that, BTW, are quoted from the Bible. The "Prodigal Son" is applicable to your monk in that if he rejects Jesus he is like the lost son who chooses his own way. He can choose to come back and God will rejoice. If he does not come back he will suffer gravely. You say, "But what if he dies young and doesn't get the chance?" He does get the chance- how could a monk never hear of God?
We are all like the Prodigal Son, we all can come to God no matter what. The door is always open - yes, while we are alive - but it is always open. That isn't very mysterious, is it?
i do respect people with other faiths so long as they are humble and down to earth about it. and especially when they can explain what they believe with clarity instead of rhetoric. i can't stand people who prance around saying things like "i hang out with sinners all the time" wow how generous. i am not trying to change your mind only to point out that christians have some harsh doctrine and should just admit it.
Number one, I have admitted it was harsh, but fair. Number two, you are now twisting my words very unfairly (I hang out with sinners all the time). That remark came as a response to Leonid's very accurate point that I wasn't trying to insult or deride or shun you. You have turned it into an insult towards me, however. Number three- you allude to your belief (I must assume you mean me) that I am just prancing around playing Christian. I am not hiding any ugly truths from sight. You have access to the very same Bible I have, now wouldn't I be foolish to try to hide the Word from you? My posts have been attempts to clarify my church's beliefs.
We are now moving to the place where we are not having an objective discussion any longer. If you truly think I don't believe what I say, or that I don't practice what I am posting, what point is there in antagonizing you further? If you are going to dismiss every point I make as irrelevant (which, BTW, you have) why should I aggravate myself further? The way I see it, for me to continue this conversation with you will do more harm than good.
I told you that quoting scripture to you would not work- you then threw a jab out there saying "at least XXXX has faith enough in the Bible to try to explain it". I then give you a very simple to understand parable to illucidate a point and you return with a "you should maybe leave the mysterious parables to jesus. i am looking for an answer more like "yes he goes to hell" or "no, some other thing happens".
You can't have it both ways. I don't seem to have a way of communicating with you effectively unless I say, "Yes, you are absolutely right." I'm sorry, I just can't do that.
