A question about guns...

[GRUNHERZ]

hehe  

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
hehe  

Karaya

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Morpheus
are you on drugs?

not even factory ammo between the two rounds come close to comparing to eachother.

before you come back saying I'm wrong look at a reloading book.

http://www.furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/files/1/45acp.JPG
http://www.furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/files/1/45lc.JPG
http://www.furballunderground.com/blueknights_pictures/files/1/45lc_ruger.JPG

I have even managed to stuff casule loads into my ruger bisley and its as tight as a drum still.

Lazs doesnt have to.  I'll do it.  Yer wrong.



I reload both, and I know Lazs does too.  I think what he was saying was if you look at the muzzle velocity of the two rounds, the commonly available (and commonly used) bullet weights, etc. you will see a great deal of similarity between the two.  Now physically, yes, they are very different.  In the casings.  But with the slight modification of adding moon clips you can even shoot .45 ACP rounds in your .45 LC revolver.  I know 2 men shooting Black Powder guns with a .45ACP conversion cylinder in their .45 LC's.  If the LC hadnt been designed for BP originally, I seriously doubt the casing would be as large as it is, and would most likely be even more similar to the .45 ACP in performance.  You'll see so much variation in the LC because there is so much wasted space inside.

*Edit

And before you go using "factory ammo loads" as proof, you might want to consider that the modern smokeless powder loads in .45 LC are "loaded down" to be useable in old guns that weren't proofed for smokeless powder.  Most boxes of "modern" .45 LC are designed for Cowboy shooters (like me) specifically to give velocities in the 750-850 fps range.  The wide range of .45 LC revolvers includes alot of original guns that would never handle the pressure of an uploaded .45.  The +P rounds they have out are specifically restricted to large frame revovlers of modern design that can handle the pressures generated.

[lazs2]

the military specs for both rounds are essentially the same.

It is true that you can load the 45 colt (no such thing as a "long colt") to much higher levels... or, that their are guns that are much stronger built for heavy 45 colt loads but... using factory ammo...  they are about the same..

the 45 acp simply duplicated the old 45 colt black powder round balistics.  45 colt will normally use a 250 grain slug at about 750-800 fps... 45 acp will run a 230 at about 800-850

grunz HK 45 is an ecellent firearm.  very accurate and reliable.

I think I will go shooting today... got about 500 45 acp hollowpoints I havent busted into and the 44 mag rounds are piling up...  gotta run some reloads through the chronograph too.

busy busy..  a twenty minute drive to my brothers and I need to see how the new flowmasters sound on the big block and give the new centerforce clutch a workout.

lazs

[Morpheus]

And before you go using "factory ammo loads" as proof, you might want to consider that the modern smokeless powder loads in .45 LC are "loaded down" to be useable in old guns that weren't proofed for smokeless powder. Most boxes of "modern" .45 LC are designed for Cowboy shooters (like me) specifically to give velocities in the 750-850 fps range. The wide range of .45 LC revolvers includes alot of original guns that would never handle the pressure of an uploaded .45. The +P rounds they have out are specifically restricted to large frame revovlers of modern design that can handle the pressures generated.

Not even close sir. Most factory 45lc are not designed for cowboy shooters and or the old black powder SSA's. My family owns two gunstores. We sell case after case of the dirt cheap 45LC that is meant for cowboy action shooters. I reload for both, and no I'm not wrong, they are a world apart. Take the modern 45lc against the modern 45acp and there's nothing to compare besides bullet weight and diamiter. Velocity between the two is 4-500 fps faster with the lc.
Im not talking about black powder loads from 100 years ago.

You'll see so much variation in the LC because there is so much wasted space inside.

That is not always the case. Maybe reloaded with a faster burning powder yes. But when you load it with a slower burning powder alot of the space is taken up. Which is a good thing because it prevents detonation. Actions today like Ruger can take a ****load of presure. I've put loads through mine that make my teeth hurt when I shoot them.  

Factory ammo today isn't just loaded for the SSA colt 45's. For you to say that and then claim to have reloaded for both and be a "gun guy"...

PS- If you would like, I can go right now and cronograph any factory 45acp and LC ammo you'd like just to show you.

[lazs2]

are you saying that factory 45 colt loads with the same bullet weights are 400-500 fps faster than 45 acp factory loads?

That is just.... wrong.

lazs

[Morpheus]

Did I say factory there? Re-read what I wrote. It had to do with reloading both. No way in hell will you reload acp with a 225gr JHP at 1350fps and have the slide and frame hold up. But you can take any of the modern rugers and load the case with all the powder you can stuff in it and it will hold up day in and day out.

What' I'm saying is that to go and say the ACP is nearly identical to the LC is wrong. It's not close. Factory ammo between the two is almost 100fps faster. Take a 45 cal 230gr chunch of lead... That's a big difference. One I would not want to test with my chest.

[lazs2]

morph... you can reload the 45 colt to higher velocities than the 45 acp... it is not just the guns either... there are revolvers that will handle high pressure that will shoot the 45 acp... it is nothing to get a acp load with a 225 grain slug to go 1300 fps in a good smith or ruger revolver.   that is not the point.  you can get 45 colt to perform even better.

factor ammo for industry standards.... makes the 45 acp and 45 colt essentialy the same round.   If you fired one of your reloads in an older 45 colt gun it would destroy it.  

The 454 casul was developed with 45 colt cases and then lengthened to keep those high pressure loads out of old guns.... same was done for the 45 win mag ( a very hot 45 auto round).

You are correct that you have more choice with the 45 colt and can load to higher velocities if you are careful and use modern revolvers in good condition.

I see little point tho since accuracy is problematic with magnum type loads.... why bother?  just shoot a 44 mag.

oh... and re read what you said... you did indeed say factory load.  you said that not even factory loads do the two come close...

lazs

[Morpheus]

good job trying to take it out of context.

I reload for both, and no I'm not wrong, they are a world apart. Take the modern 45lc against the modern 45acp and there's nothing to compare besides bullet weight and diamiter. Velocity between the two is 4-500 fps faster with the lc

[Timofei]

Originally posted by Blammo
If possible, can this thread just be left to the gun appriciating, second ammendment exercising crowd?  Thanks!

The Truth About the Second Amendment

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The Second Amendment is perhaps the most misunderstood of all provisions of the U.S. Constitution. Opponents of reasonable gun laws repeatedly argue that gun safety regulations run afoul of Second Amendment rights. In truth, however, no gun law in this country has been overturned on the basis of the Second Amendment. Rather, the U.S. Supreme Court and an overwhelming majority of federal appellate courts in this country have held that the Second Amendment protects only a right to keep and bear arms in furtherance of a well-regulated militia.

The public's common misunderstanding of the Second Amendment has been engendered, in large part, by a campaign of misinformation supported by those opposed to common sense gun laws. As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said, "[The Second Amendment] has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."

[Toad]

Originally posted by Timofei
protects only a right to keep and bear arms in furtherance of a well-regulated militia.

You have a common misunderstanding of the meaning of "militia".

From the U.S. Code:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311 Prev | Next

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
 
Release date: 2005-07-12

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
 

You're welcome.

[Maverick]

little timmy is starting to sound very much like a shade account. Talks about something he doesn't do, doesn't know much about but wants to tell others what they should do about it. A clone of beetle.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Timofei
The Truth About the Second Amendment

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The Second Amendment is perhaps the most misunderstood of all provisions of the U.S. Constitution. Opponents of reasonable gun laws repeatedly argue that gun safety regulations run afoul of Second Amendment rights. In truth, however, no gun law in this country has been overturned on the basis of the Second Amendment. Rather, the U.S. Supreme Court and an overwhelming majority of federal appellate courts in this country have held that the Second Amendment protects only a right to keep and bear arms in furtherance of a well-regulated militia.

The public's common misunderstanding of the Second Amendment has been engendered, in large part, by a campaign of misinformation supported by those opposed to common sense gun laws. As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said, "[The Second Amendment] has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime."

REALLY HMMMMM...........

I think you better do some research pard!

I've seen the Supreme Court ruling that the 2nd amendment IS an individual right.

I've further seen the report done for the Congress and Senate the says the 2nd amendment IS an individual right.

NO I'm not going to look it up for you.  Thinkin the information used for the quote above is from one of the anti-2nd amendment sites.

So do a little more work and you will see that elsewhere the actual TRUTH of recent legal and political rulings/occurances is ...... the 2nd amendment IS and individual right.

[-Concho-]

If it wasen't for fear of lynching around here I would say throw out the .45 and go with the .357 sig.

[john9001]

Originally posted by Timofei

reasonable gun laws ,gun safety regulations,common sense gun laws.  

buzz words of the gunphobics.

we are going to protect you by taking away your guns, so you don't put your eye out.