Author Topic: Christians and end times- Are they here? (Read 5382 times)

Chairboy · « **Reply #120 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:14:05 AM »

In that case, please provide evidence for your claim. If I attacked anyone in this thread, I'd like to know so I can make amends!

If you can't provide an example, then I guess you made a claim that's not supportable by facts. The polite thing to do in such a situation is to retract it.

Thanks!

Toad · « **Reply #121 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:33:22 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
In that case, please provide evidence for your claim.

I will ask the same of you.

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
What I don't like, and what you seem to be confused about, is when christians take their religion and use it to shape public policy to dictate to me and my non-christian neighbors what we can and cannot do.

How can YOU, a fellow opponent of big government, be in favor of special interest groups passing NEW LAWS restricting things?

Give me an example of christians passing new laws that dictate to you and your non-christian neighbors what you can and cannot do.

And no, the school board ruling was not a law and, in fact, it really didn't dictate what you could or could not do and it was found unconstitutional and discarded.

OK, go ahead.

Chairboy · « **Reply #122 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:38:22 PM »

How about all the anti-sodomy laws for one? Those directly affect me and most people on this board, and they come straight out of the bible. Hells bells, look at the name!

There are hundreds of these in effect across the country.

I'm guessing, based on past posts, that you'll dismiss my example, but I'm hoping you'll reconsider. Now will you provide that example please?

Toad · « **Reply #123 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:50:45 PM »

Well, how about anti-sodomy laws.

Let's take a look.

I haven't looked but you say "there's some on the books". I accept that.

What that means is this: somewhere a legislature passed that law.

If it's still on the books, it hasn't been found unconstitutional.

Therefore, it is within the bounds of the Constitution.

Some special interest group, perhaps Christians perhaps just multi-denominational folks (Christian, Muslims, Jews, Agnostics and Atheists, etc) found common cause and got their legislature to pass that law.

So what exactly is your beef here? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Are you angry because a law was passed with which you do not agree? (Hmm.... THAT is an unusual occurrence that has never happened to anyone else.)

Are you angry because such a law is Constitutional? You always have that Constitutional amendment process open to you.

Are you angry because some special interest group pursued their own interests successfully? (Hmm.... THAT is an unusual occurrence that has never happened before.)

Or are you just angry in general?

What exactly is your beef? Those laws were legally passed and ARE apparently Constitutional.

They reflect the "will of the majority". Isn't that what a democracy is supposed to do?

Chairboy · « **Reply #124 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:04:23 PM »

Actually, your most recent question had nothing to do with unconstitutionality, you asked if I could provide an example of christians imposing their morality on everyone else through the passage of laws.

I provided an answer, and asked you to answer my request for an example of the attacks you accused me of. I still await your answer.

Toad · « **Reply #125 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:10:52 PM »

I'm sorry, Chair. Really sorry.

You get SO upset when your stuff is called.

Please review the ENTIRE thread and see if you can find a post by TOAD that accuses you of any sort of attack at all.

You are confusing yourself.

Now, back to the topic.

OK, you cite anti-sodomy laws as "christians imposing their morality on everyone else ".

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever that it was ONLY Christians that backed those laws? No one else? CHRISTIANS did it?

No, I don't think you do. So it's an assumption on your part, although it's likely most Christians would support such laws. But it's also likely some non-Christians would as well.

Now I ask you a direct question:

Why are you upset that Christians perhaps banded together, used their Constitutionally guaranteed rights and promoted laws that THEY feel make for a better society over all?

What is YOUR problem with what they did?

I think your only problem is that you don't agree with them and they won.

You can't have a problem with using one's Constitutional rights... I hope.

Chairboy · « **Reply #126 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:22:42 PM »

Howdy!

First of all, I appreciate your concern, but I'm not upset about anything right now. I'm concerned about what I see as an effort by christians to make the bible into the law of the land.

I think you're being a bit ingennuos about the christian influence/backing of those laws.

Another question, why do you keep posting as if I'm some sort of spitting, angry animal spewing hatred against Christians? You keep telling me to calm down and saying how upset I am, but I'm not sure why. Perhaps you're reading emotion into my posts that's not there?

Toad · « **Reply #127 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:28:08 PM »

OK, I forgive you for making that accusation against me. I take it you reviewed the thread and realized you had lost track of who you were discussing what with and when.

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I'm concerned about what I see as an effort by christians to make the bible into the law of the land.

Again, why?

Because they are adept at using their Constitutional rights?

Once again, you need to remember they can't do anything the Constitution doesn't allow. Were they to pass such a law, the SC would strike it down in short order. Sort of like what happened in your "evolution sticker" example.

Quote

Perhaps you're reading emotion into my posts that's not there?

Perhaps you need to step back and read your own posts with an unbiased eye?

I'm not the first one in this thread that views much of what you've posted in that light.

It's either a bunch of us mistaken ...or, dare the thought.... YOU are unaware of how you come across.

Chairboy · « **Reply #128 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:33:23 PM »

It seems to me that the two folks who have suggested I was frothing at the mouth are both folks who disagree with my. Far be it for me to question your motives, but it makes a fellow wonder.

AWMac · « **Reply #129 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:35:29 PM »

So the other day I was chattin with the "Big Man" and he chuckled a bit and mentioned that we haven't seen nothing yet.
I just hope 2006/6/6 goes smooth....

BTW if I died someday I wan't to be buried naked...cuz if I go to Hell I'll be cooler than those in new suits and if I go to Heaven I want to impress the Angels!

Mac

Toad · « **Reply #130 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:35:43 PM »

I see you don't want to answer the question.

Here let me bring it to your attention once again:

Quote

I'm concerned about what I see as an effort by christians to make the bible into the law of the land.

Again, why?

Because they are adept at using their Constitutional rights?

Once again, you need to remember they can't do anything the Constitution doesn't allow. Were they to pass such a law, the SC would strike it down in short order. Sort of like what happened in your "evolution sticker" example.

Why are you concerned?
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SirLoin · « **Reply #131 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:44:17 PM »

I am concerned when people think religion should be involved in any way with politics.

z0rch · « **Reply #132 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:45:32 PM »

Wow. Look who's shouting now.

Chairboy · « **Reply #133 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:49:20 PM »

Quote

Again, why?

Because they are adept at using their Constitutional rights?

Once again, you need to remember they can't do anything the Constitution doesn't allow. Were they to pass such a law, the SC would strike it down in short order. Sort of like what happened in your "evolution sticker" example.

Why are you concerned?

Whoa, calm down, buddy. No need to shout.

Any time I provide an example, you brush it off and essentially say "yeah, but that doesn't count". I'm not interested in sitting here and citing law after law, only to have you act like I haven't said anything at all.

So anyhow, take a few deep breaths and sit back from the computer. It seems to me that you're the one that's fired up, and life's too short to get upset about this stuff. All we can do is vote our hearts, be aware of our responsibilities as citizens, and for some of us, do our best to uphold the values of the constitution.

You may feel that as a christian, it's your duty to mold our society to conform to the bible. I feel differently, and that's fine. The great thing about our country is that we have the privilege to believe what we want.

Toad · « **Reply #134 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:59:15 PM »

I see you failed to answer a very simple question once again.

As for me being a Christian, I don't know of any sect that would claim the likes of me, nor do I claim being a member of any sect.

It's not a matter of "brushing off" your example. I accept your anti-sodomy example.

The question to YOU, which YOU refuse to answer apparently is

Why does it bother you?

Those folks just exercised their constitutional rights to support and pass a constitutional law.

Why does that bother you? What part of it are you against?

Feel free to dodge again... and I know you will.