Loose Cannons - and the future of Aces High

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Dok,

What do you see as the alternatives.  The message loud and clear is a crowd is coming to a field near you.

OK you win, we're going to resist it with a crowd.  Isn't that what it's all about in the end?


I think it's fair to say that lots of the sore spots have been hit in the old Furballer vs Toolshedder debate.  Folks external to either side have probably fueled that fire.

...

But it's really the "same as it ever was." Odds have always swung to and fro and some squads shifted to compensate.  I know that when the LCA started up odds were more or less even, except for the usually Sunday night swing.

What caused players to shift to Rooks right around then? Who knows ... maybe it was winning resets ... maybe it was random ... it certainly wasn't through any kind of recruitment.

And I think that it was this unrelated odds swing which made the difference in perception. The LCA just doesn't run missions all that big ... unless it's a big bomber thing ... or mass Ju-87's ... or something like that. Were it not for all these other new Rooks piling on, this "Horde" myth would never have come up. Well, it woulda anyway, but it would just a bigger lie than is being told now.


Why did killing FH become part of the drill for taking a base? Because as often as not what stopped a mission ... sometimes while it was still being put together in the mission editor ... was some lone Tiffy pork dweeb killing ord and troops where the mission was supposed to launch. Even if the mission was to launch one level behind the front, there they'd be. What the "furballer" crowd either won't accept or won't listen to is that dropping FH at bases to enable capture was a RESPONSE to porking. But since bar/ord porking is beneficial to the Furballer Agenda, notice how they ignore it on the list of bad behavior. Hypocrites. Porking is porking.

And there was another reason. Some folks in this "anti LCA" group have more or less admitted in the BBS they have "sources of information" about where the LCA are operating ... spies. It's bad enough seeing these people argue about standards of behavior and then basically say they're willing to outright cheat to fulfill their moral agenda. But when you get a dozen players to fly 110's and C47's for two sectors overland NOE, and then it gets ruined because one of these spies tipped off the other side and you just wasted half an hour ... well, dropping FH makes sense, then, don't it?

Why drop FH under a furball? When you hear on team channel for an hour about how the C47's keep getting shot down and people starting to get antsy about "haven't we taken this base yet?" ... well ... maybe its time to help the team, drop the FH, take the base, and move the furball to the next base. Just for the freakin' change of scenery.


Anyway, back to your point. If the squads who like to move around to even the odds had just done so as per norm, then what's the big deal? The only difference is they now have an opponent (comprised of people from seasoned veterans to rank newbies) who almost always operates in a mission-based format. I think that was what KillJoy was getting at. This could have been fun and interesting.

Instead this self-appointed bunch of monitors more or less set off to determine who was allowed to stay in the game, based on their view of the world - and only theirs. And if this community ever becomes subject to that kind of regime, the game is over and HTC is toast.


That being said I do agree that the elders of the community need to provide some kind of moral compass. That's one reason I haven't given into my Dark Side during all this and done Evil in the MA (that, and I don't think HT wants his customer support line ringing off the hook).

Lazs pretty much has it right. If a squad on your side are doing something that's basically dull, it'll run out of steam on its own. And if the experienced players don't tag along, then the squad will see more failure than success - and likewise cease to be a force.

You can set an example by getting on the team channel when the OTHER team HO's and porks and hides the CV ... call the other guys names for these things and the newbies on your side will get the idea. Won't stop them all, but it will establish some sense of what not to do - without jumping down people's throats.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally dislogded by Zazen13's industrial strength enema
96Delta is one of those Lgay7 drivers that dive past the furball to the runway to vulch cons landing or taking off types, that's his idea of 'fighting'.
 

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
.


WAnd there was another reason. Some folks in this "anti LCA" group have more or less admitted in the BBS they have "sources of information" about where the LCA are operating ... spies.

They're not spies, they are your teammates who are fed-up & sick n' tired of you dorks chasing their good fights all over the map and ruining them. Rather than switch countries themslves they tell us where you are about to ruin a great fight so we can pre-emptively come and thump you down into the dirt where you belong...

Zazen

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Pooface
Delta, dogfighting isnt all the same. if it was for you then you weren't furballing properly, you must have been one of the hotard lgays or something:rolleyes:

I enjoy dogfighting just the same as you guys.
I just can't sustain my interest in the game
on doing just that.  It gets boring..no matter
how many kills I land.  Its quite meaningless for
me unless it contributes to the achievement
of a greater objective...like winning the war.
Anything less than that and, I'm sorry to say, the game
is on par with an arcade game with better eye candy.

If thats all anyone wants, they can always download
and play Air Attack for free.  All furballs, all the time.  No bombers, no base captures
and...unlimited ammo!  

View Air Attack videos here: http://www.airattack.co.uk/films/

Anyway, thats why I think the LCA has been successful and
continues to grow.  We give players bored with the
dogfighting game a chance to experience something
new from the AH2 menu.

To experience most of the other aspects of this game (aside
from dogfighting) the way they were intended you need to
be a part of a team. Dogfighting, while there are cooperative
elements, is hardly a team enterprise.

Thats what the LCA offers.

The LCA provides the organization needed to finally
sample from the vast array of offerings available in
the game that you need a team to enjoy.

We don't discriminate against anyone based on
their skill or time in the game.  Noobs are welcome
as are any other player.  Anyone who wants can
fly with us.  If they want our tag we give it to them.
We don't have 'tryouts' or probabtion periods.
We don't ask participants to ascribe to some fanciful
organizational structure with a CO or other such title.  
We don't see the need.
We're not exclusive or elitist..we are all-inclusive.
We don't care about scores.
We're only interested in having fun.

Any ROOK can fly with us.  Heck, we've even had
a few Knights change countries so they can experience
what we're all about!  I think that says something about
what we're bringing to the game.

We merely organize missions, have fun, and enjoy as
many of this game's attributes as possible.  We don't
limit ourselves to just one aspect of this game or fly
only 1 or 2 types of aircraft.  
We don't take ourselves too seriously.
We wear diapers for goodness sakes!

I believe that we are helping to make the game what
it was intended to be all along: a titanic battle between
oposing countries, not a series of dogfights unrelated
towards any strategic goal.

and God bless,

David "96Delta"

[96Delta]

Originally posted by Zazen13
They're not spies, they are your teammates who are fed-up & sick n' tired of you dorks chasing their good fights all over the map and ruining them. Rather than switch countries themslves they tell us where you are about to ruin a great fight so we can pre-emptively come and thump you down into the dirt where you belong...

Zazen

Spying has been a part of warfare for thousands of years.
The practice just gives us the chance to enjoy yet another
dimension of gameplay: intelligence gathering, disinformation
and psychological warfare.

[mars01]

LOL I love the people that say they have done the fighter thing but it got boring.  If you got bored with fighter tactics I have to guess you weren't really challengeing yourself or the way you fly.  Having to re-act to multiple situations and make split second decisions that affect wether you live or die.  Yeah that is boring :rollseyes:

The dogfight is a pure adrenalin rush, dodgeing 3 or 4 guys that dive on you thinking you are easy prey, only to kill them as they go shooting by never gets boring.  Getting twisted up with 1 or 2 guys while dodging the maroons that are diving in for the easy kill, yeah that gets boring LOLH.

Cherry Picking, Vulching and Hording - yeah I could see how someone would get bored with that and then want to go fly bombers.  

Anyone that is really into dogfighting will always find themselves in situations where they as a pilot and their plane are being pushed to the limits.

Evert fight in the DA is predictable and can get repetitive.  The MA is dynamic and each flight creates new circumstances from the last.  The only thing that doesn't change much are La7 Vulch tards that can't fight and moronic FH bombers.

Most of the problems stem from poor out moded maps.  When the maps suck the Buff issues are compounded and the fights blow.  I can't wait till HTC finishes CT/TOD.  If you maroons are still in the MA then there is a problem.

PLEASE HTC HURRY UP WITH CT!

[Slash27]

Is this ready for the glue factory yet?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally oozed by Zazen13's warts
They're not spies, they are your teammates who are fed-up & sick n' tired of you dorks chasing their good fights all over the map and ruining them. Rather than switch countries themslves they tell us where you are about to ruin a great fight so we can pre-emptively come and thump you down into the dirt where you belong...

A spy is a spy is a spy. You can rationalize it, you can lie about it, you can candy coat it any way you want. Actually, you do all three. But you are still a worthless cheat. It doesn't matter if you enlisted them or not - you are still cheating by the standards of any game.

And you're an even bigger hypocrite before ... you go on a wall-o-text rant about "correcting improper behavior" and then you boldly admit you resort to spies - to outright cheating - to fulfill your Higher Purpose. So, cheating is OK when its done in the name of cleansing the arena of wrong-doers, is it?

Why should anyone follow you as an example of "proper behavior" when you resort to cheating. You're going to tell someone "you shouldn't bomb FH because that ruins the game"  ... but oh, I'm allowed to cheat and use spies to ruin the game for someone else. Hypocrite.

By the way ... I haven't flown all week ... so how am *I* ruining any fights in the MA like you just accused me of? Geee ... another LIE!

Go thump your brain and see if it's ripe.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by 96Delta
Spying has been a part of warfare for thousands of years.
The practice just gives us the chance to enjoy yet another
dimension of gameplay: intelligence gathering, disinformation
and psychological warfare.

Delta, I disagree.

In the context of a game it simply means they are too feeble and/or feeble minded to achieve victory through any definition of skill.

It is cheating.

[hubsonfire]

How is spying cheating? What exactly are the rules on spying? I've always considered cheating to be ignoring a rule, or altering the code of the game to do something that is not normally possible withing the confines of the game, whereas I've considered it either an exploit or a gray issue when something is done which isn't addressed by the game, or a standing ToS or set of agreed upon rules and limitations for the arena, ie, communicating with the enemy, talking on open channels, etc.

[mars01]

So what if people know you are comming.  If I were a part of the LCA horde I would announce where we were heading just so we would have people to fight.  Um that is the point of the game right.  That is unless you get your kicks out of avoiding the fight and just killing defenseless too sheds and out houses.

[anRky]

Originally posted by 96Delta
I enjoy dogfighting just the same as you guys.
I just can't sustain my interest in the game
on doing just that.  It gets boring..no matter
how many kills I land.  Its quite meaningless for
me unless it contributes to the achievement
of a greater objective...like winning the war.

Anyway, thats why I think the LCA has been successful and
continues to grow.  We give players bored with the
dogfighting game a chance to experience something
new from the AH2 menu.

To experience most of the other aspects of this game (aside
from dogfighting) the way they were intended you need to
be a part of a team. Dogfighting, while there are cooperative
elements, is hardly a team enterprise.

Thats what the LCA offers.

The LCA provides the organization needed to finally
sample from the vast array of offerings available in
the game that you need a team to enjoy.

David "96Delta"

What you say here (minus the parts I snipped) is why I enjoy scenarios.  (although I disagree with the 'dogfighting is boring' parts--I never find dogfighting boring)

During scenarios there is team planning and mission planning, pre-frame and post-frame discussion, required teamwork, incentive to stay alive while completing your objectives, and (usually) a good historical backdrop.

Although missions in the MA can be fun, they do not and cannot come close to  scenario play for any or all of this.  

When I am in the MA, I want many fun fights (whether mission-oriented, mindless furballing, ongoing aerial battles, or good 1v1s out away from the hordes), but regardless I don't want a lot of downtime--flying to the fight from far-away fields, sitting around waiting for a mission, waiting for bases to respawn, whatever.

Scenarios are a blast.  Dogfighting in the MA is a lot of fun.  Missions in the MA can be fun, but are often not.  Base capture is a grind.

I always have more fun trying to up from a base under a cloud of vulchers than I do flying for sectors trying to find a fight.  MUCH more fun.

[Zazen13]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
A spy is a spy is a spy. You can rationalize it, you can lie about it, you can candy coat it any way you want. Actually, you do all three. But you are still a worthless cheat. It doesn't matter if you enlisted them or not - you are still cheating by the standards of any game.

We're just adding to the level of 'realism' you purportedly seek. WW2 was infested with broken codes, spies and double agents, just ask the Japanese about Admiral Yamamoto.. You want more realism, well here ya go buddy, enjoy...

You call it spying, we call it intelligence gathering in an expanded effort to preserve our way of life (furballing)...Tomatoes--Tomotoes

Zazen

[killnu]

I have yet to have somebody not on my country where these rooks missions are. or LCA for that matter.  look for big dar bar going to small if any dar bar...no need for spy.  the dar bar speeks volumes.  when some of them have said, they fly to least resistance, kind of a give away that it may very well be them heading in large group to a base with nobody at it.  guess that cheating because some of them have told us their tactics?

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
How is spying cheating? What exactly are the rules on spying?  

You believe HTC has to post rules stateing the spying is concidered a cheat? Or is it that you believe it is OK to cheat/spy because, by inference, you/BKs do it?

Must be where Gunit222, the 13 year old kid, got the idea to send his little brother to the other side.

Perhaps the MOTD should state anything not specifically addressed by the rules be it bug, exploit ect. may be used to the detriment of others.

Maybe I'm just getting old but I know what cheating in a game is, even if you apparently can't figure it out. Sad.