Author Topic: How high are $$$ now (Read 8643 times)

Golfer · « **Reply #135 on:** April 25, 2006, 12:01:58 PM »

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which leads me on to driving conditions here - very different from what you're used to, perhaps. It rains quite often, and we get icy conditions in the winter, even black ice, leaves on the road in autumn etc., and many minor roads in remote regions are full of twists and turns, often with steep gradients thrown in. These are all reasons I appreciate the 4WD. It has power steering anyway, so the steering is never heavy.

What would someone who lives in Ohio/Pennsylvania know about ice. The damn foolishness of me.

I don't know what your assumption is but the truck I'm referring to (the one I drive) isn't a POS white toyota afghani special.

It's a 2000 Chevy Silverado. Z71 package and the 2WD/4WD/4LO is a selector button just left of the steering wheel. Driving around all day in 4WD is useless and wasteful if it's a beautiful day outside. The truck handles differently and is most noticed in turns with 4WD engaged. Because the front wheels are now producing power they have a tendency to right themselves straight and a slight amount of extra force is needed to overcome this.

The only time I need 4WD is wintertime in ice, snow drifts, off road. Even off road 2WD gets you anywhere you need to be and if you need 4WD you can sometimes wonder WTF you're doing there in the first place. The exception to that would be mud combined with hills or water of any substantial depth.

The 4WD will save the day when I really need it. Until then...I'll keep my 19+ MPG instead of taking it down to 15 or so with 4WD.

Oh...my truck could eat your car. One day I'm going to lose it on some poor schmuck driving a Ford Focus or neon and just run them over in traffic.

beet1e · « **Reply #136 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:20:57 PM »

Yes, but Golfer - I don't have to worry it. The transition from FWD to AWD/RWD is automatic, and seamless.

Most of the time, it will be 90% FWD and only 10% RWD. If it's a race you want, I can think of some roads up in Cumbria/Yorkshire Dales where your truck wouldn't stand a chance.

Golfer · « **Reply #137 on:** April 25, 2006, 01:40:33 PM »

That seems crazy to have a car that wants to be in 4WD all the time. Or is your "FWD" "Front Wheel Drive" and you've got some odd misrepresentation going on.

I wouldn't live somewhere where my vehicle was required to be in 4WD 90% of the time. I might vacation and go skiing there...but sure as hell wouldn't live there.

Fine by me with your curvy windy roads. They don't have those in Eastern Ohio / Western Pennsylvania. At least not flat ones.

Then again, you couldn't turn off the asphalt either so while you're on your road...I'm on the trail.

beet1e · « **Reply #138 on:** April 25, 2006, 02:03:38 PM »

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Originally posted by Golfer
That seems crazy to have a car that wants to be in 4WD all the time. Or is your "FWD" "Front Wheel Drive" and you've got some odd misrepresentation going on.

I wouldn't live somewhere where my vehicle was required to be in 4WD 90% of the time.

No, in a normal cruise, 90% of the power goes to the front wheels, and only 10% to the back. When accelerating, a power shift can occur such that 100% of the power goes to the back wheels.

You'd love some of the roads here!

lazs2 · « **Reply #139 on:** April 25, 2006, 02:15:24 PM »

beet... let's just wait and see.... I don't know and neither do you how much oil we will import in the future.... neither of us have any idea of what demand may be...

I hear all the doom and gloom... I say fuel costs will not go much past normal inflation here for one reason or another... gloom and doom.... If we were to listen to u and the other doom and gloomers on this board we will be out of oil in 10-20 years anyway.... not to mention fried by global warming in a decade or so....

I have been listening to end of times scenarios all my life.... I am just too old to take any of em seriously anymore.

The amount less that I will drive my Hot Rods around when gas reaches $5 a gallon someday will be...... 0%. Just like you won't quit drinking wine if it quadruples in price or stop going out to eat if it doubles in price.... If airline tickets cost ten times as much because of fuel prices you will still fly....

All the while singing the old gloom and doom the sky is falling song.

I say it will all work out... there might be a period of adjustment but.... it won't take long to sort itself out.

lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #140 on:** April 25, 2006, 02:40:49 PM »

LOL Lazs! You silly sausage...

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Originally posted by lazs2
beet... let's just wait and see.... I don't know and neither do you how much oil we will import in the future.... neither of us have any idea of what demand may be...

Well, the US daily demand is 20 million barrels a day and (according to Nashwan's figures, which I would not dispute) you import ~13m barrels a day. Even if Canada and Mexico sold you all their oil, you'd still need to import 10m barrels a day. And you'd have no control over the price of that 10m barrels. You're going to be competing with China.

I would hope that America grasps the nuclear nettle, and finds ways of overcoming issues such as nuclear waste. Right next door in Canada, there is an abundance of nuclear fuel - uranium. Natural gas (LNG) might give us a 20 year buffer before a more permanent fuel can be developed and deployed, but you and I will be dead by then.

J_A_B · « **Reply #141 on:** April 25, 2006, 03:30:43 PM »

"Natural gas (LNG) might give us a 20 year buffer before a more permanent fuel can be developed and deployed, but you and I will be dead by then."

Natural gas is obscenely expensive at the moment, far moreso than petrol. A lot of people around here had $300-$500 monthly heating bills over this past winter, when it's normally 1/3 that amount. It's disgusting what these companies are getting away with.

J_A_B

Rolex · « **Reply #142 on:** April 25, 2006, 09:35:11 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
If we were to listen to u and the other doom and gloomers on this board we will be out of oil in 10-20 years anyway.... not to mention fried by global warming in a decade or so....

Maybe you should relax a little. The only person who has said the things you're fretting over is you. It's a good thing you're only joking and simply get a twisted charge from spinning people up with exaggeration because railing at self-created imaginary demons is psychotic behavior.

People who would like to see us start making the enormous investment necessary to develop and move alternate energy into the mainstream sooner, rather than later, are rational people. It's called "anticipation."

Toad · « **Reply #143 on:** April 25, 2006, 10:15:40 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
People who would like to see us start making the enormous investment necessary to develop and move alternate energy into the mainstream sooner, rather than later, are rational people. It's called "anticipation."

I think Laz's oft voiced opinion that high gas prices are the ONLY thing that will move us to make the enormous investment necessary to develop and move alternate energy into the mainstream is correct.

He also routinely says it's better to use up all the oil now in order to increase the pressure to move on to the next thing.

Guess he's one of the rational ones, eh?

Mr Big · « **Reply #144 on:** April 25, 2006, 10:45:08 PM »

I have the same view as Lazs. Keep taxes on oil to a minimum and don't "conserve" fuel.

Fuel cannot be "saved". If I "conserve" fuel, someone else will just use it up. NO fuel is EVER "saved" by driving a high MPG vehicle. The oil will be used as fast as it can be pumped regardless what any one of us does to try to "conserve" it. Tell me I'm wrong.

Mr Big · « **Reply #145 on:** April 25, 2006, 11:00:10 PM »

An example of the folly of "saving" fuel is Beetle. He loves paying a high gas tax and driving around in a vehicle that gets 50 mpg.

What affect does Beetle have on the consumption of fuel in the world? ZERO. The Fuel that he "saves" gets us used up by guys like me..... or people in China and India, as fast as it can be pumped.

The only thing Beetle has accomplished is that he has paid a very high tax on fuel so his government can profit from his misery.

Rolex · « **Reply #146 on:** April 25, 2006, 11:06:34 PM »

Hold on there, Toad...

This is the first significant price hike in history caused more by increased demand, than by a transient interruption of supply. It isn't going to go down a lot when refineries hit from Katrina and doing seasonal transition maintenance come back on line next month.

The faster we use it up, the faster the price goes up.

The faster the price rises, the more inflation stress on the global economy.

A significant driver of the global economy is American consumption, fueled by debt (I'll call it an inverted debt bubble) at levels there are no historical records of.

We're flying IFR without any Jepp charts.

One thing we do know is that 3 of the last 4 global recessions were triggered by high oil prices.

The faster the price rises, the greater the risk we have the mother of all recessions - a hyper-stagflation - without the resources to invest to get out of it, because the US and Japan are up to their eyeballs in debt.

Printing more money only increases the inflation, prolonging and deepening the stagnation.

Want to go back to 1979? 21.5% prime rate? Prices increasing 40% in 3 years? 17.5% mortgage rates so that a $200,000 mortgage costs $2,933 per month?

You, of all people, would be hit the hardest since you're on a fixed income.

I prefer conserving now to try to keep a lid on prices as investment is made over ten years.

Using it up as fast as we can is economic suicide.

Mr Big · « **Reply #147 on:** April 25, 2006, 11:09:54 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
Hold on there, Toad...

This is the first significant price hike in history caused more by increased demand, than by a transient interruption of supply.

Ummm, what's the difference? Supply?

Debonair · « **Reply #148 on:** April 26, 2006, 12:18:22 AM »

Jepp charts are overpriced anyway...

beet1e · « **Reply #149 on:** April 26, 2006, 04:02:45 AM »

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Originally posted by Mr Big
An example of the folly of "saving" fuel is Beetle. He loves paying a high gas tax and driving around in a vehicle that gets 50 mpg.

No, the reason I do it is so that I can have a good belly laugh whenever these gas price whine threads come up, hard on the heels of the "I love my truck - it gets 9mpg" threads!

Guys like you are forever crying in your beer about how you're being "wronged" by your government or "wronged" by the oil companies, and it never occurs to you that the high prices for crude oil that are now being whined about are caused by America's insatiable demand. At 20m barrels a day, consumption is around 25% of the world total, in a country which has 5% of the world's population.

I'm not trying to "save the world" with my choice of vehicle so much as taking responsibility for my own finances so that when the oil shock comes (like now) I'm not caught out like all the usual gas price whiners. Too bad a few more people don't/can't/won't do that, but oh! - it's so much easier to whine on a BBS instead when you can no longer afford to refuel your vehicles, and blame the Arabs, blame the Chinese, blame the oil companies, blame the government, blame taxation - all the while stubbornly maintaining the "tradition" or "societal insistence", as HangTime puts it, of driving grotesquely large vehicles which in many cases return only a single digit mpg value.