Author Topic: How high are $$$ now  (Read 8713 times)

Offline Mr Big

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How high are $$$ now
« Reply #195 on: April 29, 2006, 09:55:17 AM »
Rolex is a man of action. He tells Toad to get active in American government to try to change something that Rolex is concerned about.

Meanwhile, Rolex resides in Japan and whines.

I hear ya Lazs

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #196 on: April 29, 2006, 10:31:19 AM »
Everything depends on when "peak oil" occurs or occured. Some say it happend the end of last year and others say it is 20 years out. All individual fields of oil have the same characteristic - when peak oil occurs, the drop off in production is steep and not flat or a shallow curve. And so will be the cumulative drop off.

If it happened last year or happens within the next ten years, we're economically screwed.

If we do now what we should have done in the 70's, we'd be that much further ahead. Ten years of substantive conservation, research and commercialization of alternate fuels and power generation before peak oil is the about the minimum time required to avoid being completely screwed.

A tiny 6% windfall tax on Exxon profits this year only, if applied to solar research, would be 10x the money spent today.

Acting too early doesn't pose any risk. Acting too late will be be a global economic disaster. I am not fear mongering, it could be as severe as the Great Depression.

The problem is that we won't really know if we've hit peak oil until we're over the edge of the curve.

You are basing your do 'nothing' attitude from the conditions that were in effect 30 years ago. Today is not 30 years ago and the conditions are not the same. We were nowhere near peak oil, global consumption was not ramping up from China and India growing at double digit rates and the US was still manufacturing goods instead of importing without the massive debt racked up.

You just want to gamble that you can make through your little pathetic lifetime without feeling the effects.

I think you're the one who has forgotten what it means to be an American.

You never served the country in uniform. I'm a Vietnam veteran.

You admit that you were a criminal. I was never a criminal.

Your're a tax-sucking government worker who whines about the government.

I am the engineer who designed and built the electrical distribution equipment that has powered the Prudhoe Bay oil facility in Alaska for the last 25 years, the Washington DC subway system and the Marta rail system, hired more people and contributed magnitudes more to the country than you ever have by helping major Japanese companies, such as Panasonic, build manufacturing plants in America 15 years ago that provide the employment for thousands of Americans.

Stuff it, you anarchist whiner.

Added: One more thing, I'm done with you, so don't bother whining to me anymore. This board has a great feature - Ignore. Your nonsense is invisible to me now.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2006, 10:41:03 AM by Rolex »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #197 on: April 29, 2006, 10:54:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
If we do now what we should have done in the 70's, we'd be that much further ahead. Ten years of substantive conservation, research and commercialization of alternate fuels and power generation before peak oil is the about the minimum time required to avoid being completely screwed.

A tiny 6% windfall tax on Exxon profits this year only, if applied to solar research, would be 10x the money spent today.

Acting too early doesn't pose any risk. Acting too late will be be a global economic disaster. I am not fear mongering, it could be as severe as the Great Depression.

 


I don't disagree with your reasoning or even with most of your projections.

The realist (note: not the pessimist or the optimist) in me just doesn't see the US Government doing, or causing its citizens to do, any one of the things you suggest .

The Government is reactionary crisis management. Remember your Apollo example? It was a reaction to the Russian sputnik, not a proaction to explore the moon.

Would I like to see the things you suggest start happening? Sure.

Do either you or I actually believe the US government with either party in power will take those steps in a well thought out program?

I don't. Do you?
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Offline Mr Big

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« Reply #198 on: April 29, 2006, 10:55:57 AM »
Rolex, why get so upset?

Offline Mr Big

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« Reply #199 on: April 29, 2006, 10:57:46 AM »
Toad, the first step is to move to Japan then tell Americans to run for office and fix everything.

Offline Mr Big

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« Reply #200 on: April 29, 2006, 11:07:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Everything depends on when "peak oil" occurs or occured. Some say it happend the end of last year and others say it is 20 years out. All individual fields of oil have the same characteristic - when peak oil occurs, the drop off in production is steep and not flat or a shallow curve. And so will be the cumulative drop off.

If it happened last year or happens within the next ten years, we're economically screwed.



Who's "we"?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #201 on: April 29, 2006, 11:08:10 AM »
Nuke, FWIW, I think Rolex is one of the more intelligent and "even" posters on the board.

In short, I like reading his stuff and pondering his points.

I think you are selling him very short if that is your response to what he offers us here.
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Offline Mr Big

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« Reply #202 on: April 29, 2006, 11:11:33 AM »
Toad, he's a smart guy. Just giving him a little crap. Just thought it was funny when he gave you advice, from Japan.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #203 on: April 29, 2006, 12:39:19 PM »
rolex... I still don't see your solutions.   You like to predict doom but your only solutions that you have suggested is to tax the oil companies and give the money to the government to slow research.

If you work dillegently to give the government more money and power then the lowest criminal is of more service to this country than all the things you have accomplished.   It matters not how well meaning you are... the fact that you are good at it (according to you) means that you are hurting us all the more.

This is not the first go round on the government interfering with research.  you claim we (the government) should have been doing something in the 70's

for a vietnam vet you have a short memory... the govenment subsidized solar and a host of other things like electric cars and they also dropped the national speed limit to 55 and created an end to solar research (why improve if you can suck off the government tit for any trash you can throw on someones roof RIGHT NOW?)  the 55 limit wasted more gas than it saved in decreased productivity and cars not suited for those speeds...

Government allways screws it up.  You want to relive the 70's cause you can't remember em.... I don't cause I can.

you think the government does a good job of educating yet...  proof is that they are doing a worse job every year and the more money you give em the worse it gets.

An engineer I know isn't helping panasonic buy America... he is working on 80% efficient solar panels  they will probly be on sale long before your doom scenario... the only thing slowing progress is the government rebates on the trash that the sleazebags are putting on peoples roofs right now.

Just attacking me doesn't suddenly give you credence.   You get credence by saying credible things and not haveing hissy fits.  You get credence by offering solutions not doomsday....  

So far as I can see you got nothing but more tax and spend.   So go ahead... put me on ignore.   I have never put anyone on ignore.

lazs

Offline Redwing

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« Reply #204 on: April 29, 2006, 02:26:44 PM »
Just a short remark: 80% efficient solar panels? Not in 20 years.

You're probably talking solar water heaters. Their efficiency is around 80% nowadays. In laboratory environments photovoltaic solar panels have recently hit the 35% efficiency mark. The ones available on the market today have around 10-16% efficiency ratings.

does that make a doom and gloomer too?

Offline bj229r

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« Reply #205 on: April 30, 2006, 06:33:33 AM »
At any rate, corporations don't PAY taxes, something liberals in this country will never grasp. If you slap a big nasty tax on Citgo or Exxon, WE pay that through even higher gas prices.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #206 on: April 30, 2006, 10:19:56 AM »
no... I am talking about 80% efficient solar phot volteaic panels that are being developed right now.. they use conical mirrors to focus sunlight... I will see if I can get more info on em...  I think they might be as little as a few years out... Imagine... an entire home run on two or three 4'x8' panels.

I think it is much better to be optomistic and let the crisis solve the problem than to throw hard earned tax money at the clumsy and inefient beast that is government.

I see a things getting interesting.   I remember a few years before cell phones how eeveryone said that practical ones were 20 years off.

lazs

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #207 on: April 30, 2006, 11:55:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


I see a things getting interesting.   I remember a few years before cell phones how eeveryone said that practical ones were 20 years off.

lazs


I'm hoping so.. I'm very disenchanted with government funded research and control of university labs. Your earlier points on government involvement in education and science being dead on the mark in my view. They strangle both.. and twist it to their corporate paymasters advantage.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #208 on: May 01, 2006, 08:50:36 AM »
yep hang..  look at the scam artist solar hot water heater guys from the 70's.. only the real junk got put on roofs (now trash and gone) because...

The government gave the same rebate no matter what you put on your roof... just get something up there.... the gold rush was on...

Rolex wants to create another gold rush....  get a bunch of sleazes sucking away "research" money and rebate money from the clumsy and stupid government....  Plus...

It appears that he wants to throw the teachers union a bone and get em more involved in advanced government schools.... maybe 16 years of worthless schooling (at our expense)  instead of 12.... the extra four years might be good enough to allow graduates to know how to march in protestest or fill in rebate coupons maybe... certainly not do math..

my answer?   vouchers for school to get some real education competition and...

A billion dollar contest for the company that comes up with the cheapest working model of say..... an 80% efficent solar panel or... 500 mil for the company who can make a city energy self sufficent using solar or whatever...

Tax free for coal into oil plants for a certain time limit....

prizes for every aspect.   tax free status on any new wells drilled and producing oil for the next ten years...  

How does that compare to rolexes big government ideas?

lazs

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #209 on: May 01, 2006, 11:58:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
I'm hoping so.. I'm very disenchanted with government funded research and control of university labs. Your earlier points on government involvement in education and science being dead on the mark in my view. They strangle both.. and twist it to their corporate paymasters advantage.


Back in the 50's and 60's the place with the highest concentration of Nobel Laureates and the place to be was Bell Labs.  Put the profit motive behind research and watch it take off.
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