Author Topic: This has always puzzled me... (Read 3813 times)

Zazen13 · « **Reply #75 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:07:41 AM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot
[BOfcourse, being grossly average, even that kind of flying yields only a very modest score. But still, it's satisfying to us, since we fly the way how we see fit, not how someone else dictates so we can become 'lesson material' by being shot down.

Once again it's about "score" ... which drives timidity. What's wrong with a "lesson" ... if it isn't shoved in your face ... which I have to agree that most find necessary to thump their chest on CH 200 and degrade the loser, which I also believe is a major contribitor to timidity. If you spank a newb ... send them a <> ... it will lessen the hurt and make them feel that dying really isn't all that tragic.

[/B]

I have no doubt some fly timidly for scoring purposes. Although flying too timidly actually harms your score, so even that may be a somewhat misguided premise. But, believe it or not, some fly, what I call, conservatively simply because killing efficiently without dying is what they find most realistic and fun. I know this because I am one of those. I could not care less about my rank, but I do care about not giving up my pelt due to stupidity. I'd much rather kill 2 and live than kill 5 and die.

A perfect hop is what makes my nads wiggle, a perfect hop to me would be to outsmart/outshoot/outfly half a dozen decent pilots and survive. I would quest for my definition of a perfect hop just for my own personal amusement and nothing more, whether scores, ranks, stats, buffer accolades, etc. existed or not...So, I would not go so far to say everyone who flies "conservatively" does so for the sole reason of scoring...

Zazen

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #76 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:38:41 AM »

Lets also acknowledge that there is a difference between flying smart and flying timid. A FW driver who doesn't get sucked into a turn fight with a Spit is smart. A P38 driver at 20K who runs away from a 109 at 15K is timid.

Likewise there are varying kinds of veteran players. Not all of them/us are like Drex or Levi. There's a lot of real good players who drive 190's and 51's. And most can do well in just about every plane available. And I'll wager almost none of the true veterans care about score anymore.

"The Art of Pissing People Off?" ... puhleaze ... the closest I've seen to anything I'd even acknowledge as a worthy effort is capturing TT/FT. The incessant HO'n'Go dweebs and outhouse addicts are an annoyance, but nothing more.

SlapShot · « **Reply #77 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:55:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Zazen13
I have no doubt some fly timidly for scoring purposes. Although flying too timidly actually harms your score, so even that may be a somewhat misguided premise. But, believe it or not, some fly, what I call, conservatively simply because killing efficiently without dying is what they find most realistic and fun. I know this because I am one of those. I could not care less about my rank, but I do care about not giving up my pelt due to stupidity. I'd much rather kill 2 and live than kill 5 and die.

A perfect hop is what makes my nads wiggle, a perfect hop to me would be to outsmart/outshoot/outfly half a dozen decent pilots and survive. I would quest for my definition of a perfect hop just for my own personal amusement and nothing more, whether scores, ranks, stats, buffer accolades, etc. existed or not...So, I would not go so far to say everyone who flies "conservatively" does so for the sole reason of scoring...

Zazen

The word "conservative" was not used once in my post. Like DoK stated above, there is a vast difference in flying smartly and being timid.

I love nothing more that being low and slow and seeing s P-38, P-47, 109/190 ... BnZ the crap out of me ... properly.

When they make their first pass, then immediately zoom within 800 to 1.5 and come right back with the same attack ... that I can appreciate ... cause that is using the plane to it's maximum aggresiveness.

I have been killed (in my Spit V / Hurri II / FM2) by those who know what they are doing ... and I love it. They are confident enough to at least expose themselfs to a possible mistake (make a fight of it), which I will jump on if they make one, but at least they fought ... and they didn't have to TnB with me to do it.

When I fly a BnZ plane I will do the above ... my heart practically jumps out of my chest on each pass and zoom cause I know that if I make a mistake ... it will cost me ... but were gonna have a heck of a go-around until one of us dies.

BUT ... when they BnZ on the first pass ... extent to 6.0+ ... and then come back when you are then engaged, they are the timid ones and have not learned to use their plane properly and are scared to die.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #78 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:56:33 AM »

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Originally posted by FALCONWING
THEY (levi...fester etc) DONT PLAY ANYMORE!!!!!!!

I don't? That's news to me. Did you cancel my account or something?

-- Todd/Leviathn

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #79 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:04:42 PM »

I don't believe that score actually motivates much of the timid flying. Rather, fear of dying encourages people to gang, vulch, and otherwise engage in the types of activities that encourage survivability. This has less to do about score or rank (after all, you hardly obtain much rank by landing 30 sorties and gaining only 8 kills) than it does about an unwillingness to appear weak or noobish.

The game offers players this path of least resistance, and unsurprisingly many choose to follow it. I suppose I can't blame them; the game has a daunting learning curve, the arena is huge compared to when many of us "old" vets started, and few mechanisms exist to discourage this behavior other than posting threads that these players won't read. Timid players "win" by not dying, by encountering the enemy and living another day.

Why do they headon? Probably because that's the only time the other plane isn't wildly maneuvering to avoid them. That's their one good shot right there.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Zazen13 · « **Reply #80 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:33:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
The word "conservative" was not used once in my post. Like DoK stated above, there is a vast difference in flying smartly and being timid.

I love nothing more that being low and slow and seeing s P-38, P-47, 109/190 ... BnZ the crap out of me ... properly.

When they make their first pass, then immediately zoom within 800 to 1.5 and come right back with the same attack ... that I can appreciate ... cause that is using the plane to it's maximum aggresiveness.

I have been killed (in my Spit V / Hurri II / FM2) by those who know what they are doing ... and I love it. They are confident enough to at least expose themselfs to a possible mistake (make a fight of it), which I will jump on if they make one, but at least they fought ... and they didn't have to TnB with me to do it.

When I fly a BnZ plane I will do the above ... my heart practically jumps out of my chest on each pass and zoom cause I know that if I make a mistake ... it will cost me ... but were gonna have a heck of a go-around until one of us dies.

BUT ... when they BnZ on the first pass ... extent to 6.0+ ... and then come back when you are then engaged, they are the timid ones and have not learned to use their plane properly and are scared to die.

Ok, I can appreciate that distinction.

Zazen

Vudak · « **Reply #81 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:41:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Kweassa

I mean, if they really want others to learn, they can be the ones flying the role of the "target drone" and get shot down during the process. Why's it always have to be us who becomes the guinea-pigs in the vet demonstration of "how to sucker a fool"?

Alright, I'm gonna assume Slap is right on the devil's advocate thing, because this statement is just foolish.

Which one of the guys in this thread isn't willing to do this? Urchin? Morpheus? Widewing? Have you ever spent any time with any of these people in the DA?

Do you honestly think that if you asked them, "Hey, I can't figure out this evasive... Can I get on your tail and you pull it off so I can get it on film?" that they wouldn't oblige? Come on, get off it man. Take Widewing up on that offer. He'll give you his six. Or whatever angle you want to work on. His job is to help you get better.

Most everyone in this thread that is arguing against you has either taken me into the DA (From way back when I was AWFUL to now when I'm mediocre), wrote me emails/messages on what I'm screwing up and what to try, or helped me along in the help forum with some insight. ALL I HAD TO DO WAS ASK.

The only reason I haven't spent any time with some of the other people, is I NEVER ASKED. I know they've all helped someone else who did.

How you fly is not my business, true, but if you're going to insinuate that vets aren't serious about wanting to help others reach their level, I'm going to call you on it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #82 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:47:18 PM »

SO would anyone play this game if there were no "XXX landed 77 kills in an LA7 for the GeNerALz aRe KiNg squad" attaboys?

Would anyone play if there was no rank system or scoring system?

Being on the top of the AH scoreboard and a buck might get you a can of Coke right?

LOL It's like talking into the wind. Who cares about the score. What's the point if you don't get in and mix it up a bit?

No one dies, planes are free. Forget the attaboys and scoreboard. Best way to get better is to get in there and fight.

You might surprise yourself and kill a few....unless you are like me and just get a kick out of seeing how many pieces your plane gets blown into each flight

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #83 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:06:07 PM »

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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

Why do they headon? Probably because that's the only time the other plane isn't wildly maneuvering to avoid them. That's their one good shot right there.

-- Todd/Leviathn

home for lunch..quick question, Lev

do you think if the Head On Shot was lowered percentage wise or made nearly useless, that people would then decide to LEARN how to "gain angles" "understand E-Management" and practice "Lead turns/defelction shots/anything else besides JOUSTING?

or

do you think the multitude of them would just go find another game that is much easier for them?

ok.out the door, samwitch in hand got do go make that dime.....

AutoPilot · « **Reply #84 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:09:57 PM »

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Planes are free, no one dies. Screw the scoreboard. Have some fun and die a little.

I so agree with that statement.

All this typing is a waste of time.The MA is an ARCADE ARENA so play in it like it is.

I see all these bad arse virtual pilots on this BB talkin all this smack and all that smack about how they are so awesome and your not,when you log in too the MA(MA = Major Arcade) you see those same people landing kills in the easiest planes there are like they are so awesome.

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #85 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:10:41 PM »

The folks who man the TA are very good at spotting problems in technique. And they work there every night just because they love the game.

And in the MA you'd be surprised how much a veteran player can see about what you're doing wrong, even from 2K away. All you need to do is ask.

Compared to when some of us started - when *all* we had was a copy of Shaw and a vivid imagination - "these kids today" have it so easy in terms of learning the game. I have a tough time feeling sympathy for someone who won't take one evening off from shooting up outhouses to go to the TA and freakin' learn a few things.

But so many n00bs are "good at flight sims" and their fragile little egos can't handle the notion that someone with a decade or two of experience might be able to teach 'em something.

Oh ... and as far as mixing it up to learn ... that's fine ... as long as after each death you can see WHY you died. Otherwise you're just jerking off with sandpaper.

-DoK

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #86 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:16:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
home for lunch..quick question, Lev

do you think if the Head On Shot was lowered percentage wise or made nearly useless, that people would then decide to LEARN how to "gain angles" "understand E-Management" and practice "Lead turns/defelction shots/anything else besides JOUSTING?

or

do you think the multitude of them would just go find another game that is much easier for them?

ok.out the door, samwitch in hand got do go make that dime.....

As I recall, AW did precisely this. Hell, for a while you could fly right through each other on the merge. All of a sudden people were working for angles instead of trying to gut shoot each other. It was a smaller game then, so those playing weren't about to leave.

In AH, I'd expect such a change would result in more vultching (i.e. timid approach to enema base and then strafe field until dead, lather, rinse, repeat). The use of the La-7 would probably drop off too, without that HO shot it's not as effective. Probably see people convert from Spit16 to Spit8 as well.

Karnak · « **Reply #87 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:37:20 PM »

I still have my account, but never play anymore because of this issue.

I want air-to-air fighter combat, and most of the MA occupants seem to want air-to-mud work.

The Fighter Town areas were fun, but most maps didn't have them

I really don't care if I lose after a good fight. Sure, I'd rather win, but a loss after a good fight is far, far more enjoyable than a cherry pick. Sadly, too many people don't fight.

Last time I played I did get a nice fight against a guy in a Spit XVI and that was fun. Even got a ~~out of it, so I think he had a fun time too.~~

AutoPilot · « **Reply #88 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:52:34 PM »

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The folks who man the TA are very good at spotting problems in technique. And they work there every night

Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers".The people who help the others learn and cannot type in blue are in the TA more than the ones who can type in blue.

Vudak · « **Reply #89 on:** May 01, 2006, 02:15:34 PM »

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Originally posted by AutoPilot
Maybe Ghosth and WideWing,that is about all out of the "Trainers".The people who help the others learn and cannot type in blue are in the TA more than the ones who can type in blue.

Wrong thread for this jab.