Originally posted by Toad
I personally wouldn't underestimate the Euros.
I think the idea that they would roll over for Islamic terror or overt jihad overlooks the history of Europe.
When push comes to shove, these are the folks that fought two extremely bloody world wars tooth and nail. I think, if necessary, they are quite capable of dealing with anyone "on their own level".
Well, yes, the Euros have fought tooth and nail in the past. They've done so against a very visible, very organized enemy. An enemy, however evil, that was easy to understand in how he operates because, for the most part, he was one of them. Hitler made a big deal out of creating a proud, powerful army, out of making famous a symbol, reproducing it, and doing everything he could to spread it to every corner of his domain. He was a European conquoror in the basic sense of the term. Practically speaking, he wasn't too far removed from Napoleon.
The current situation is different, I believe. It is, for the most part, an invasion of ideology and values. You don't see it coming like you do a Panzer division, and it certainly waves no flags in your face. It just shows up one day, and it's there, spreading like a virus. The Euros can't see the forest from the trees, and although they are quite capable of fighting like-minded foes, they seem to be deaf dumb and blind when it comes to this situation. Just reread some of the posts made here, and you'll see what I mean. They're still trying to apply their sense of right and wrong, humanity and inhumanity, to the Arab world. Playing by rules that don't exist.
Just ask our Israeli friend Caligula what it takes to make an arab listen. It takes a whack to the head, nothing more, nothing less. You do not ask or even demand respect, you impose it, and you do it over and over again, as many times as it takes.
Ironically, the Russians may yet turn out to be our best ally in this, because, unlike Western Europe they care little for PR, and are culturally and historically very at peace with brutality. No trials for any of the terrorists that took the Moscow theater a few years back... Summary executions before the terrorists even awoke, followed by buriels in pig-skin, just to spit in the face of their faith. The lives of their own citizens took a back seat to cold, harsh revenge. Now, as much as this may offend you, and me, you can bet that if push does come to shove, they will press the button, and ask questions later.
Of course, there will always be the predominant approach to this, and that will be to talk it out. Talking it out, in this case, is the same as trying to reason with a pissed-off Pit Bull. You don't reason, you beat him into submission, and then, only then, if he's not dead, you offer him a treat so he stops fearing you.
I think the major failing is that the Arabs know that we won't break our own rules and resort to their style of combat. And if one of us does, most likely the US and/or Israel, they know full well that the rest of the Western world will condemn the action. From the government, to the private citizen eating dinner at home, any Western power that takes initiates aggressive action will be seen as an oppressor. We have no cultural solidarity. They do, simply by virtue of the fact that any action against a Western power, 9/11 included, even if it is publically condemned by their government officials, is still regarded as righteous behind closed doors with total or near total universality.
