Originally posted by TheWobble:
Ok first off dingus its not called the "nazi symbol" it dates back long before the Nazis ever existed. Look it up..or wait you obviously wont.. here
OK, apparently you are not trying to claim that nazi did not stand for holocaust and oppression, at least in this post of yours. If you do, you should not strain your mental facilities by reading any further.
If you look at that StSanta's sentence to which I replied, nowhere does it mention the word "swastika". Here it is:
In much the same way the nazi symbol really isn't about holocaust and opression By any definition a "nazi symbol" is a nazi symbol, be it a swastika design, flower, star, song, verse, tune, greeting gesture, NSDAP membership ticket, a historical event, a person or anything else.
I will tell you a little secret - when our species evolved from apes (or were Created), the main distinction we've got from the animals was
the abstract thinking. Or, I should say, most of us have got that distiction. Some may still get it with a little education, though, so read on, The Wobble.
There is a concept of symbol and a representation and the same thing may be part of different symbols or no symbol at all. There is a general concept of a nazi symbol, there are particular nazi symbols and there are representation of a particular nazi symbols.
So not every swastika is a nazi symbol, but every
nazi symbol is a nazi symbol, and hence a symbol of holocaust and oppression.
I can rightfully argue StSanta's statement without even knowing what the nazi's symbol was - purely on a semantic level (stop me if it's going over your head).
He may have been talking about "Horst Vessel" (sp) song tune or "Deuchland Uber Alles" slogan for all I care - those were known in
certain cases to be used as
nazi symbols too.
If we talked about swastika design, that would have been different, but we did not - StSanta and I, at least.
It may be that StSanta made an error and used the words "nazi symbol" instead of "swastika design" but I repiled to what he typed in, not what he could have ment Personally I am not distraught in the least when I see the a demonstration on the streets weaving a symbol of the finnish airforce (blue swastika), or hindu symbol of whatever, or a basket-weaving pattern or a symbol of some american-indian tribe or a one-time symbol of 42nd US southern regiment (or whatever) - gold on the red, or most of other symbols involving swastikas.
I am sure, thought, that the neo-nazi demostration waving swastikas does not use it as any of those symbols but as a
nazi symbol which is a nazi symbol by definition (I do not usually find the need to repeat myself but this post is directed primarily towards TheWobble, so bear with me, guys).
Of course in our world most pople when they refer to swastika in 99.999% of the cases really mean the nazi swastika and not the other kinds.
Also, why would you presume I would not look something up if I do not know something? Oh, I know. You are one of those intolerant people who are ready to call everybody else an idiot or a dingus if they even suspect that person of contradicting his views. Doesn't matter that I just corrected StSanta on his semantics while I actually agree with his views, or with
your view stated in the originating post of this thread, for that matter. But that would be expecting too much of you a - willingness to figure out the issue or even attention span to remember a previous post in the thread... Probably too much.
By the way, why did not you use the most obvious argument in your holy flag debate - before the secession attempt the southern states were a part of the current US and hence the slavery was perfectly legal in US for many years. Not only that, some slave states stayed with the Union rather then join the Confederacy and slavery was not abolished in those. What's more, when the proclamation of emancipation was issued by A. Lincoln, it freed the slaves of the Confederate states only but not the Union states. So if any flag should be burned as a symbol of slavery, it is the Stars and Stripes flag.
Of course we may also burn (or cheer) the US flag as a symbol of Oral Sex.
That is a good example of a symbol and an associated object - the same object could be perceived as a symbol of anything at all, and what can we do about it? Keep cool, try to be impartial, consider all the angles and try not to thow out a baby with the water? Well, you (TheWobble) surely do not sound like such a person so far...
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 02-22-2001).]
