Cherry Picking

[lazs2]

skyrock hit it on the head again...  and... the cherry pickers got ultra defensive.   every once in a while I will grab a tempest and look for the cherry picker running away.   Believe me... they die easier than the dumbest "cherry" in the furball.  even the dumbest cherry can fight... 90% of fast plane B & Z cherry pickers are just meat when you are co e with a faster plane.

Defend the practice all you want.   there was a time when it was the only way in AH... the first version I played had all the planes pretty much turning and losiong e at the same rate...  If you turned... you were meat for anyone else.   any plane could turn with any plane well enough to get a shot... maybe longer.   Everyone went high and everyone avoided anyone... if a plane got low... two or three others would dive on him from different directions and run...  everyone was B& Z   there were no furballs at all.

There were actualy people who complained when the flight models were fixed and the fast planes could't turn turn with the slow ones.  But gameplay improved dramaticaly.    New planes became availabvle that were slower but still useful.

A little history... perhaps perteninent to today...  bad behavior and bad gameplay allways lead to change in HTC sims.

I say that it is fine to play anyway you like and to take any shot you got...  if you do only the easiest style of play tho all the time  (B & Z in the fastest planes) you will never be able to defend yourself when you need to.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[SkyRock]

Lol, Lazs!  I know you know about this topic as it's hard to bnz cherrypick in an FM2!  I had 3 auger the other day as they all bnz'd at the same time.  I nosed down in me 1-hog and none of them could pull out!  You gotta luvit,
the dora snapstalled into water, nik compressed, and the A-8 couldnt pull up!

[gatt]

Originally posted by SkyRock
Lamer talk!  this post is about the definition of the term cherry picking.  you have also(if you read the posts) heard descriptioins of cherrypicking.  I gave an opinion and I would go as far to say that you wouldn't last 15 seconds in a duel with a good fighter!  There is a big difference in cherry picking and fighting.  

Well, my post was all about this annoying whine about cherrypickers. You dont want to be cherrypicked, right? Then sharpen your SA and furball where there are not higher cons.
Following your reasoning my opinion should be that you would not last more than 15 seconds in a multibogey situation requiring an high SA. However this would be silly, would it?
Differences about cherrypick and fight? C'mon. This is a game not a medioeval tournament (sp?).
If you die becouse a cherrypicker gets you, you deserve it. If you dont want, go to the DA.
During the last months/years I saw ppl whining becouse they got nailed by their target's (unseen) wingman while blindly following their prey ....

[lazs2]

yep... I will often be dodging three of six of these skilled and historical cartoon warriors and so busy reversing one while dodging the 4 cannons of the other and keeping track of where in the loop over the other two are that I can't read the messages.    when they finaly kill me I will see that I have 3 kills even tho I may have only hit one in the reverse.

It is funny to watch a lone B & Z guy.. he will dive in from behind hoping you don't see him.    He will turn long enough to realize he is being suckered and then pull off.. you will get the snap shot and put some into him because he has no idea where you are and what a reverse is (some form of cheating) and he will go bannanas!  flop around and do the fishflop... Often.. he will run all the way home when he finaly get's seperation...  I imagine that he is near a heart attack..... He allmost had to fight!  

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by gatt
Well, my post was all about this annoying whine about cherrypickers. You dont want to be cherrypicked, right? Then sharpen your SA and furball where there are not higher cons.
Following your reasoning my opinion should be that you would not last more than 15 seconds in a multibogey situation requiring an high SA. However this would be silly, would it?
Differences about cherrypick and fight? C'mon. This is a game not a medioeval tournament (sp?).
If you die becouse a cherrypicker gets you, you deserve it. If you dont want, go to the DA.
During the last months/years I saw ppl whining becouse they got nailed by their target's (unseen) wingman while blindly following their prey ....

1)  I haven't really read any whining about cherry pickers in this thread.  I see most posts basically as definitions, descriptions, or opinions.
2)  I could find films of me fighting 4+ cons at the same time and often coming out the only one flying!
3)  Killing the guy chasing your wingman is not a cherry pick.  The two have to be in a fight!
4)  maybe we meet co-alt co-e for a good one vs one fight to test my theory on most cherry pickers!  I think you would get kicked!:aok

[gatt]

Originally posted by SkyRock
1)  I haven't really read any whining about cherry pickers in this thread.  I see most posts basically as definitions, descriptions, or opinions.
2)  I could find films of me fighting 4+ cons at the same time and often coming out the only one flying!
3)  Killing the guy chasing your wingman is not a cherry pick.  The two have to be in a fight!
4)  maybe we meet co-alt co-e for a good one vs one fight to test my theory on most cherry pickers!  I think you would get kicked!:aok

No, I'm not a cherrypicker. Buff-hunting apart. I get involved in all kind of fights, winning and losing.

What I find funny are guys gloryfing themselves and throwing gloves around thinking they are very good gamers.

[HomeBoy]

I see two groups of people in the arenas.

Group A are the players who are trying to win the war for their country.  They do whatever they can to help see that through.  They will vultch a field, cherry pick, HO, whatever.  They just want to defeat the enemy.

Group B want to have "civil fights" (that was the dumbest phrase I heard in this thread btw).  This group throws around words like "fairness",  "lame", and "dweeb".  Group B players have their idea of the perfect arena and expend great effort trying to implement "rules of engagement" and shape the behavior of those who do not see the arena the way they do.  Huge threads about "Is the HO honorable" abound with Group B players.

Group B players try to build this "other game" within the game Group A players are playing.  This does not pose a problem for the Group A player because he just sees the Group B player as another target.  The Group B player however sees "lameness", "vultchers", "alt monkeys", "HO potatos", "dweebs", etc. etc, etc.  In frustration, he then comes here and unloads on all of us.

I say, if you want "civil fights" then take it to the Dogfight Arena.  That's why it exists.

[SlapShot]

This does not pose a problem for the Group A player because he just sees the Group B player as another target.

This is where you went wrong ...

Group A players DO NOT want to fight ... they don't see Group B as targets, but rather something to run from, and if they do engage Group B players, they get spanked like a red-headed stepchild ... and then they move to an area where there are no Group B players.

[B@tfinkV]

any furballer who complains about hordes of toolshedders needs thier free kill detector checked.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by SlapShot
This does not pose a problem for the Group A player because he just sees the Group B player as another target.

This is where you went wrong ...

Group A players DO NOT want to fight ... they don't see Group B as targets, but rather something to run from, and if they do engage Group B players, they get spanked like a red-headed stepchild ... and then they move to an area where there are no Group B players.

Slap, not only did you hit the nail right on the head, but its funny as he11 to see it put that way!  That's exactly what I see when the landgrab horde comes to town.  If you catch one of them alone, they run like scared wussies, and if you do catch them, they do that reverse rudder roll and stik stir tactic.  Thats when I cut throttle, and float behind them pinging them with bb's until I've seen them squirm enuff, then tower them out of mercy!  If they do decide to "fight" it out, then be ready to dodge the headon because trustme, its coming.  

[gatt]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Group A players DO NOT want to fight ... they don't see Group B as targets, but rather something to run from, and if they do engage Group B players, they get spanked like a red-headed stepchild ... and then they move to an area where there are no Group B players.

Wrong. If I mix in a dogfight and get kicked by a  better pilot its my fault: to the pilot who got on my six.
If, while furballing, I'm jumped by an higher/faster fighter then again its my fault: to him. My SA was low and I deserve it. Was he unwilling to fight? Not at all, I was the one cought with pants down. Higher/faster cons can obviously engage and disengage at will. They dictate the fight against "group B" not viceversa.
Call them cherrypickers as long as you want, however you are the one taking off again (and probably crying on ch.200) and they are the ones still flying and fighting.

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by gatt
Wrong. If I mix in a dogfight and get kicked by a  better pilot its my fault: to the pilot who got on my six.
If, while furballing, I'm jumped by an higher/faster fighter then again its my fault: to him. My SA was low and I deserve it. Was he unwilling to fight? Not at all, I was the one cought with pants down. Higher/faster cons can obviously engage and disengage at will. They dictate the fight against "group B" not viceversa.
Call them cherrypickers as long as you want, however you are the one taking off again (and probably crying on ch.200) and they are the ones still flying and fighting.

Wrong!  They are not fighting, they are cherrypicking!  There is a big difference!  Cherry picking involves no "fighting" skills and could be done by any two week newb!  Perched above a furball picking planes off that are already fighting is a basic unwillingness to fight!  They don't want to fight, they want to cherry pick!  Why do you keep trying to put that tactic into the doctrine of dogfighting, it is something altogether different. When I want to keep my ride safe, and rack up some easy kills, I cherrypick!  When I'm in the mood for "fighting" I dogfight!  

[stockli]

your saying its not fun to boom into 22 bish chasing a countrymen and pick the last one off?

Over and over.......

Sounds like fun to me, and pretty funny too.

Usually you can pick off two or three before the whold clan scurries away like roaches in the light.

[HomeBoy]

Originally posted by SkyRock
...Cherry picking involves no "fighting" skills and could be done by any two week newb!... /B]

Now, you're just being silly.  I'm willing to give in on some of what you have been saying but frankly that's just emotion talking there!  [Maybe even a bit of whinning!]

"Cherry picking", or whatever the crap you want to call it,  is risky business.  You must keep your speed up which risks compression (especially in a 109) and if you get enticed to turn much to get the kill, your speed gets bled then you get jumped by the Spits and Niks.  Then you have the "laser beam" gunnery of the Spit deflection shot to worry about too, not to mention the dreaded collision.   You want to tell me a "two week newb" can deal with all that?  Ok, I'm not a great pilot, average at best.  You can certainly criticise me on that, but I'm no "two week newb" either and I find "cherry picking"  (I like the term "energy fighting" better) very challenging and keeping my plane fast and high requires much concentration.  Nothing like you imply.

I'll get the occassional radio message to the effect of "Come back and fight you dweeb!"  I just have to laugh.  Yeah, right, I'm going to drop down into a Luffberry with you Spits and Hurri-s and fight "your" fight!  You'd love that wouldn't you?

And you say I don't want to fight?  You're sure right there.  If I can pick you off without a fight, I'll do it EVERY time!  The objective is to run you off from our base or take your base or clear the path for our bombers, etc.  If I can accomplish that without getting fired upon, that I call that SMART.   You can continue to whine about "fairness" and "lameness" all you want.  I can take it!

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by gatt
Wrong. If I mix in a dogfight and get kicked by a  better pilot its my fault: to the pilot who got on my six.
If, while furballing, I'm jumped by an higher/faster fighter then again its my fault: to him. My SA was low and I deserve it. Was he unwilling to fight? Not at all, I was the one cought with pants down. Higher/faster cons can obviously engage and disengage at will. They dictate the fight against "group B" not viceversa.
Call them cherrypickers as long as you want, however you are the one taking off again (and probably crying on ch.200) and they are the ones still flying and fighting.

Gatt ... you are straying here ... he grouped ALL people into Group A and Group B ... not just YOUR standpoint ... look at it from a "Group" standpoint.