Author Topic: Cherry Picking (Read 4401 times)

SkyRock · « **Reply #90 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:26:18 PM »

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Originally posted by Solar10
Hitech needs to code a "cherry cloaking device" to prevent your plane being picked when you turn it into a "big ripe cherry".

Alternatively you can just have better SA!

Lets say the guy had great "SA" and pulled out of the fight to climb up to fight a cherrypicker. At what distance from the moon would the cherrypicker stop running from the Cherry?

scottydawg · « **Reply #91 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:26:53 PM »

While I find cherry picking annoying and don't much care for it, it is a valid tactic. I mean, one of the points of the game is to get kills and not get killed, right?

stegor · « **Reply #92 on:** October 05, 2006, 04:52:54 PM »

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I have never heard anyone say anthing that vaugely resembled admiration for the poor clutz.

what if someone play this simulation not for being admired but only for amusement of flying the way he likes??

who cares for being admired??.... so don't be timid, raise your hands:aok

Clutz · « **Reply #93 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:33:13 PM »

You guys be careful using "clutz" in your descriptive words!

It's my name! sheesh!

llama · « **Reply #94 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:41:03 PM »

Skyrock and others:

You know, when that "cherry-picker" clears your six for you after you've expended all your E on a co-alt fight within a larger furball, do you thank him, or do you whine that he's cherry-picking?

I hope you thank him. You might be thanking me.

Here's my thinking: if you aren't cherry-picking for at least one pass before entering a furball, then you're an idiot. Any dope can fly straight into a furball, co-alt, and start turning, but he probably won't last long, because *someone's* gonna have more E and shoot him down. That's the nature of the game. That's the nature of air-combat. That's why they call it *energy management.*

You're *supposed* to enter a furball from on high, so you have some options. Maybe you want to use that E to get co-alt and super fast. Good. That's the idea. Now try combining it with killing someone: now you're two for one: one kill and lots of E, co-alt in a furball. It's called "planning your attack," and that's a good thing.

Now *this* is cherry-picking: you shoot off a guy's wing and tail surfaces. He's tumbling to the ground out of control. Then someone swoops in with cannon, shoots up the cockpit, get the PK or explosion, and then gets the Kill credit, leaving you with an Assist. *That's* cherry-picking.

What's you're whining about is called "teamwork" on the part of players who know how to manage E and stay alive.

And as for dogfighting skill, check my sig...

-Llama

hubsonfire · « **Reply #95 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:20:19 PM »

Well, I guess I'm an idiot, so I won't comment, other than to remark that I'm in complete and total awe of llama for winning a con event. I guess he must be the bestest dogfighter ever! I for one, consider this matter settled!

SkyRock · « **Reply #96 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:25:19 PM »

Ilama I don't care for that "style" of playing this game. I know some really, really good dogfighters that do nothing but cherrypick. I think they play the game in a lame manner. On the other hand that percentage of cherrypickers that are great sticks is probably less than 3% in my opinion. Most of the cherrypickers that I run down from the stratosphere completely lose their banana's when forced to actually fight using the planes stall envelop and angle capabilities. They just don't know what they are doing. So, you see, I understand about flying "smart" by keeping your altitude and basically culling the fight below of the enemy with the weakest capability of moving out of the way of screaming fire, it's just that I see it as the KISS way of playing the game. Keep It Simple Stupid! It actually works as is shown by 80% of the pilots ranked in the top 50 in fighters who couldn;t fight their way out of a disadvantaged fight. Now, am I trying to totally embarass someone by calling them lame, I hope we have stronger skin than that! I am just saying that if more of the "regular" Cherrypick artists actually learned how to fight, then you would see a drastic increase in those super charged adrenalin fights that many of us "dogfighters" play for! Why? Because once the stall manuvers, angles, throttle management, multi-enemy SA, reversal manuvers, dodging manuvers, and other true survivability characteristics of a good dogfighter are learned/mastered by the ones who now rely on cherrypicking as their tactic of choice, then many would get bored with cherrypicking. Like I said earlier, there are some who who are great sticks and basically do nothing but cherrypick in the MA's. But that number is really small! ~~to you sir! Oh and btw, yes I am bored or, no, I wouldn't be replying so much to a thread about cherrypicking, as I rarely ever get cherrypicked by someone I didn't know was coming!~~

Stang · « **Reply #97 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:58:00 PM »

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Originally posted by SkyRock
Ilama I don't care for that "style" of playing this game. I know some really, really good dogfighters that do nothing but cherrypick. I think they play the game in a lame manner. On the other hand that percentage of cherrypickers that are great sticks is probably less than 3% in my opinion. Most of the cherrypickers that I run down from the stratosphere completely lose their banana's when forced to actually fight using the planes stall envelop and angle capabilities. They just don't know what they are doing. So, you see, I understand about flying "smart" by keeping your altitude and basically culling the fight below of the enemy with the weakest capability of moving out of the way of screaming fire, it's just that I see it as the KISS way of playing the game. Keep It Simple Stupid! It actually works as is shown by 80% of the pilots ranked in the top 50 in fighters who couldn;t fight their way out of a disadvantaged fight. Now, am I trying to totally embarass someone by calling them lame, I hope we have stronger skin than that! I am just saying that if more of the "regular" Cherrypick artists actually learned how to fight, then you would see a drastic increase in those super charged adrenalin fights that many of us "dogfighters" play for! Why? Because once the stall manuvers, angles, throttle management, multi-enemy SA, reversal manuvers, dodging manuvers, and other true survivability characteristics of a good dogfighter are learned/mastered by the ones who now rely on cherrypicking as their tactic of choice, then many would get bored with cherrypicking. Like I said earlier, there are some who who are great sticks and basically do nothing but cherrypick in the MA's. But that number is really small! ~~to you sir! Oh and btw, yes I am bored or, no, I wouldn't be replying so much to a thread about cherrypicking, as I rarely ever get cherrypicked by someone I didn't know was coming!~~

~~P A R A G R A P H S z O M G !~~

Hornet · « **Reply #98 on:** October 05, 2006, 09:56:15 PM »

this game's really going soft if flying headsdown with poor SA is now considered impressive, and the guy who makes you pay for it is considered lame.

emerging from a furball with your hair on fire and a handful of kills is the ultimate rush in this game, but asking cherry pickers to lay off is weak. The challenge...the whole reason for the rush...is you survived something you are not supposed too. I am really quite amazed that some furballers are trying to sanitize the arena with this, "please don't pick me I'm actually quite good" argument. It used to be if you were good you wouldnt be the one getting picked, or you only got picked with gun bays empty and a bucketload of kills. I guess if the new way takes hold it will make even mediocre furballers feel like legends too though.

I would much rather practice the craft knowing nobody on the other side is taking it easy on me. Operating in a sector underneath some known pickers is a real challenge that is certainly worth the 15 bucks. We'll just be entering a new asterick era of AH, where all feats, while possibly great, will have taken place in an era where the high E cons were taking it easy, unlike the guys who practiced the craft exceptionally well 4-5 yrs ago.

HomeBoy · « **Reply #99 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:00:13 PM »

Guys, I deeply regret participating in this discussion. I am truly sorry that my comments would generate such hateful personal attacks from Skyrock. Perhaps others were offended too. I guess I'm more naive than I thought. I thought I was entering into a spirited debate were we could do a little "idea battle". I had no idea it would turn so ugly. I have no desire for this. You will hear from me no more.

Please accept my apology.

-mark

SkyRock · « **Reply #100 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:19:05 PM »

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Originally posted by HomeBoy
Now, you're just being silly.

I apologize for for being retalitory in the nature of my post, Mark! Mark
Why can't all of us Mark's just not get along!

gatt · « **Reply #101 on:** October 05, 2006, 11:54:17 PM »

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Originally posted by E25280
If I may weigh in, from what I've read, you seem to have confused the "cherry picker" with the "Boom and Zoomer" or "Energy Fighter". Unless I am hugely mistaken (which I often am), Skyrock et. al. have nothing against the valid use of energy fighting.

The "cherry picker" is often an "energy fighter", but not all "energy fighters" are "cherry pickers."

The key is fighting. You and your target are aware of each other, each trying to sucker the other into giving up his advantage. The turn fighter tries to bleed your E and get you to turn. You try to keep the fight in the verticle. Fair enough. Use your BnZ for all its worth.

The guy who sits 4K above a 6 player furball waiting for his chance to swoop on the enemy with the least E is the cherry picker. Sure, he is using BnZ tactics, but not really fighting. What he is doing is more like vulching, except the target is not on a runway.

My take anyway.

Oh well, thats what I meant. You evil SkyRock

lazs2 · « **Reply #102 on:** October 06, 2006, 08:06:57 AM »

homeboy... you don't have to apoligize... that is how you feel about it. However.. you really don't have much of a leg to stand on if you claim that the real skill is to B&Z in the fast planes... by looking at your stats we see...

that you die about as often as you win... that it takes you a very long time to kill anything. And.. that you don't prevail aginst planes that are your equal or even lesser.

If you check some of the furballers stats you will see, in the expanded version, that they beat every plane in the game while flying inferior planes that are being careful.. they often have 2, 3 to one or higher kills against B & Z planes.

This would indicate that sky is correct and that furballers not only have better sa (albiet more strained at all times) but better acm skills.

stegor.. if you are playing only for your own satisfaction and don't care what anyone thinks... why post here at all? why play against people at all if you don't really fight them but think that having the fastest plane and diving and running is "fun"?

fortunately... for the most part... the cherrypickers cancel each other out to a great extent.. you have em on both sides and they are afraid to go down on the furball because their opposite number on the other side will then cherry pick them... soooo.. you have two fights going on in a lot of cases... the high alt foxhole guys in the super planes all hiding from each other and jokeying for position and the low furball with guys fighting an more hectic battle consisting of more intense acm and sa.

oh... an energy fighter is not what I am talking about... I will rarely see a true energy fighter... they tend to be much higher than me and never really get down to my alt and engage with other energy fighters... they are simply another skill set that I am not interested in but they do have skill.

lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

stegor · « **Reply #103 on:** October 06, 2006, 09:02:40 AM »

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stegor.. if you are playing only for your own satisfaction and don't care what anyone thinks... why post here at all? why play against people at all if you don't really fight them but think that having the fastest plane and diving and running is "fun"?

lazs...i'll try to explain better, but given that english is my 2nd language some concepts are hard to spread out for me.....

I play for my own satisfaction.....its obvious, and I do care of what people thinks; this simulation is so good because you have the possibility to "make friends", and fly and compare with other people.
But there is a ratio between the two ways, and someone is losing this ratio
on this bbs.
I've never stated that having the fastest plane is fun, I don't always dive and run, but I can't accept that if you don't turn and burn and you don't furball you have to be called a lamer, or I don't know acm at all...

I like to fly 205, and 190, and with this planes I have to conduct my attacks in a way that is in harmony with the peculiarities of these planes.
If I play B&Z or E- fight in a 190 against La or spit XXX... then if someone tells me I am timid/lamer/cherrypicker....ar whatsother do you think I have to care of this or have I to think he is the real loser??

Maybe it would be nice to come here writing with more balance, not generalizing at all, and not be ready to let fall the everlasting challenge : I can beat you anytime in acm, that's too childish --> NOT directed to you at all Lazs:)

~~Lazs~~

Hammy · « **Reply #104 on:** October 06, 2006, 09:52:56 AM »

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Originally Posted By FALCONWING:

you sound like a 4 yo girl!

Pot & Kettle