Author Topic: Testing Capture system in LW orange today  (Read 43242 times)

Offline Simaril

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #420 on: November 30, 2006, 10:53:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
...snip...

4. In fact I consider us furballers to be the griefers in AH. We are the ones who play the game contrary to the way it was designed to be played, causing grief to the players that are true to HTC's design and spirit of the game.



Viking, you seem to be suffering from a common misconception -- that the game was "designed" for capture to be central.

Let me quote HiTech:

Quote
Originally posted by Hitech
...
quote from some other guy:
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Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is a false assumption.


The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.


HiTech


__________________



The point of the game is not to capture, which would put the Air to Air guys in the "wrong". It is to have fun FIGHTING -- in HiTech's words, "to promote combat." The "war" gives context for the fighting to take place, but the war isnt the main point of AH.  

Combat is the point. And from the designer himself, then, capturing without combat is ...pointless.


Hitech quote came from THIS THREAD
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 10:58:18 PM by Simaril »
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Offline Overlag

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #421 on: November 30, 2006, 10:53:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
just came from orange, the knight "hord" was "steamrolling" almost undefended rook bases, 4-5 in a row, i don't know where the rook furballers were but they were not defending bases.  Maybe they were off somewhere playing 1 v 1.  The rooks had more players than knights.

HT better find a new way to make people "fight".

44MAG


yup 4 different squads, plus some lone ranger guys all flying for 1 base. i created one of those "missionz" which took the base almost unoposed.

the missions have to be more robost though.

we had light P51s (omg a plane without ORD?!?!) fly in 5minutes earlier, these took the planes down low and then moved off to defend West of the field to stop planes coming from another base.

The P47s dropped FH, ack then town. A20s also hit town. some P47s headed off now they was light to help the Western cap, while others stayed at the base.

the fights can be more "realistic" now.... but it still doesnt stop hordeing, and its WAY to restrictive
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline twitchy

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #422 on: December 01, 2006, 12:07:43 AM »
I'm the CO of The Pigs On The Wing, alot of you new guys won't remember our glory days, but there were times when I led the Pigs to take 15-20 bases sometimes in a night. Ask Moil, he'll tell you what we were.
We sure as hell didn't avoid fighting to take those bases, lest you forget names like hylandr, citation and seraphim spanking your butts and all those Oinks on channel 1.
We took bases, and we were damned good at it.

Listen, I know this may arrive as some surprise to some of you guys, but perhaps you should know that angry little feeling you get when you see some red dots on your map racing along to your flank to capture a base where you aren't at, is the self same angry little feeling we get when we call on channel that we have deacked and busted the town at a base and need help with the cap and none of you guys show up.
For alot of us, alot more of us than you think, dogfighting is just one aspect of the game.
No we don't avoid dog fighting anymore than you guys do, it just isn't all we do, and it sure isn't what we want to be limited to.


Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
capturing without combat is ...pointless.

Capturing without combat is called "Lack of Defense".
Combat without Objectives and Goals is Pointless.
Furballing for Hours over the Same Blue Strings is More Pointless.
Requiring others to furball over the Same Blue Strings with you is Absurd.
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #423 on: December 01, 2006, 12:18:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
maybe you should?

 

if they had attacked Calais, they would have never got off the shingle. Why? because we told them we would be coming there, and they had the most defences there. Even going there TODAY you will see that it would have been an impossible task landing there.

they choose the weakest part, and also with operation bodyguard working at max.... it kept the Germans from reinforcing Normandy because they "knew" the main attack was coming at Calais or maybe Norway....


oh and you also have the US landing on some japanese held islands without any fights......hmmm


If you have a "battle" as I SAID, how can they land on them undefended?  

Normandy WAS defended.   Rommel did NOT listen to Hitler and increased coastal defenses in Normandy, contrary to Hitler's wishes.   HITLER and his minions THOUGHT they would hit Calais.  

Again, READ MORE with your buddy.
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Offline MOIL

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« Reply #424 on: December 01, 2006, 12:45:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
Like hell I don't.


Give it up Twitchy, their the only ones that fight

Offline MWL

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« Reply #425 on: December 01, 2006, 12:45:54 AM »
Greetings,

  Ummm, back to a post a bit more on topic, played again tonight.  The one base takable per side is a bit restrictive.  (yes, I understand others can be taken, but they won't end the war)  I am thinking the post earlier which determined multiple lines of supply (or axis of advance) is a solution.  And they can probly be changed from like map to like map which would result in multiple grand tactical schemes for each map.

  I would recommend that CVs have the ability to influence the fight in that they could change a field from 'untakable' to 'takable' - why do I get the feeling that I am inventing new words here?:O  

Regards,

Offline soupcan

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #426 on: December 01, 2006, 01:14:41 AM »
As a player who enjoys all aspects of AH (base defence, base capture, A2A)
it has been my experience that  capture attempts are met with light, moderate, heavy and yes sometimes no resistance. To say that all who are against the
current test configuration always avoid fighting and don't enjoy fighting is
complete rubbish.

do bases sometimes get captured with no defence?........ yes.
So what? don't you think that most would eventually get bored
of "rolling undefended bases" and start seeking out a more challenging
engagement?

there are already 2 LW arenas so why not raise caps and keep 1 as is and the other with the "restricted" capture rules. put the same map in both and see where the players go.
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Offline Flayed1

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« Reply #427 on: December 01, 2006, 01:20:24 AM »
WOW has to be one of the biggest Furballer VS Shedder threads evar!!!

 Geeezz guys take it somewhere else if you please, some of us are trying to figure this out and make it better than what it is now.   We know it has problems and I would assume HT and crew are trying to ajust things to take care of them...  

  I personally don't like the 1 base at a time thing as it just makes for to much of a stale mate.  I was in Orange literally ALL day from around 7:00am to 10:30pm trying to get a handle on it and I and a few squad mates had some if limited success.  

  I think the biggest cause of the stale mate between Bish and rooks was like someone else meantioned here that we had to take 3 Vbases in a row and thus bish had to keep flying farther and farther out in an attempt to cover the Vbases while the rooks had air bases all around the farther out Vbases. This made it next to impossible to get to the next air base that would have been for all intents and purposes the next Bish strong hold on the line.  

 I do dissagree that the current large maps can't be made to work with some form of this system but better thought as to how the lines are laid out need to be given. Like in the above situation instead of the lower line hiting all the air bases and the uper line hitting all the Vbases I think it should have been more of a zig zag going from air base to Vbase and back in some fassion. this would have been more balanced for both sides.

I started messing around with ways that might have been better and this looked good except for the LOOOOOONG line leading to the zone base and no matter how I went at it I had a similar problem some where. Soo I started looking at other possibilities and this one didn't look all that bad.

 Though now that I look at it the line going from the air base in 7,17 to the Vbase in 7,18 should be moved aver to the bases 1 sector right, but you get the idea.    

 In this situation you would fight it out to a point where the front would devide into two fronts letting you keep a balance of air and Vbases on both fronts and making play a tad more interesting untill either the attacker pushed on and eliminated the remaining thread to the west or was pushed back. The line to the north leads to the zone base but I would think you might want to deal with the lower line first or it might become sowhat of a pain :D  

 Just had a thought.. HItech I know you wouldn't want the attackers to keep ram roding right on through the country and possibly hitting other forks in the line and thus further deviding the fronts so would it be bossible to require that in order for you to push on up the line you would need to keep the line connected to your home country?  Ther for if the attacking country didn't finish dealing with the remains of the first line then there would be the possiblity of them being cut off on the northern line and any forward movement on the nothern line would stop untill the line was reastablished. On top of this the bases that were cut off could then be turned into capturable at any time bases as if they were cut off from a supply line and there for weakened?

  I hope I am being clear enough :)  But from what you said this morning in the arena this sounds real close to something that would meet your spesifications, correct?


 Any way just more thoughts. I hope they are good ones.
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Offline eagl

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IDEA
« Reply #428 on: December 01, 2006, 05:25:19 AM »
Sorry if this was already mentioned, but... (edit - I see llama suggested some of this, but my idea is a bit different)

How about making the number of capturable fields a multiple of the number of people online?  Then modify it based on if you're outnumbered or not.  The numbers can be adjusted, but here's an example that shows the general idea:

Setup rules - Your country can capture one field per 20 people.  For each 20% you're outnumbered, you are allowed to capture one additional field in the country that outnumbers you.

So, let's say rook has 50, bish has 70, knit has 100...

Rook is allowed to attack 2 fields per enemy country, plus they're outnumbered by bish by 40% and by knit by a whopping 100%, so in total, rook is allowed to attack 4 bish fields and 7 knit fields.

Bish can attack 3 fields per enemy country by default.  They outnumber rook but are outnumbered by knit by about 40% so they can attack 3 rook fields and 5 knit fields.

Knit has 100 players but outnumbers everyone so they can attack 5 rook and 5 bish fields.

This way, you reduce the amount of fields an outnumbered country has to actively defend, an outnumbered country has more flexibility to make sneek attacks when outnumbered, but you're still requiring players to fight each other instead of mindless milkrunning and rear area porking.

Lastly, leave the strat targets legit targets so die-hard milkrunners still have something they can blow up.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 05:46:28 AM by eagl »
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Offline eagl

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #429 on: December 01, 2006, 05:45:47 AM »
I almost forgot...

Nilsen, you don't get a vote until you buy a joystick that actually WORKS.

:rofl
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Online uptown

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« Reply #430 on: December 01, 2006, 06:14:52 AM »
it's all good:noid
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Offline Oleg

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« Reply #431 on: December 01, 2006, 06:26:47 AM »
I still dont understand CV role in new system :huh
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Offline Schatzi

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« Reply #432 on: December 01, 2006, 06:58:34 AM »
Id like to see more then one base capturable per front. Im not much a fan of flying in the horde - to many greens around are not my thing. With the new set up, fights are even more concentrated.... no "satellite attacks" on surrounding bases.

Other then that, i think the setup could work out well.
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #433 on: December 01, 2006, 07:03:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by twitchy
....snip...
 
Capturing without combat is called "Lack of Defense".
Combat without Objectives and Goals is Pointless.
Furballing for Hours over the Same Blue Strings is More Pointless.
Requiring others to furball over the Same Blue Strings with you is Absurd.




Twitchy:

The "pointless" jab was an attempt to be cutesy, but when you're worked up I could see it sounding inflammatory. Sorry for that, never my intent.
You're worked up, and you're PO'd. Been there, done that. Slow down a sec, though.

I've never said that capturing bases or winning the war is bad. Far from it -- without that structure, this game would get old really fast. There is a reason we dont play in another game's dogfight arenas....

All the same, COMBAT -- not capture -- is the goal of the game. Just like I'd never want to tell you how to play, you shouldnt really expect to tell others how to play -- so you shouldnt get mad when nobody cares about taking the base the Pigs have prepped. And you shouldnt EXPECT others to care about defending a base.

HT is trying an experiment that's designed to get the guys who want to fight A2A into the same zones as the guys who want to capture. That's it, nothing more. It's not pro-furballer or anti-landgrabber.
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Offline Niros

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Testing Capture system in LW orange today
« Reply #434 on: December 01, 2006, 07:05:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oleg
I still dont understand CV role in new system :huh


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