Jeremy Clarkson-The Good The Bad The Ugly

[FastFwd]

Originally posted by lazs2
The aussies get it... nothing like the torque and sound of a V8

and fasfwd... why would I want a smelly little crapbox that my elky can do everything better at costing half as much to build and....  I can find it in a parking lot and... smelly diesel is more than gas here per gallon.  gonna get worse too as the newest regs kick in.  

Well LOL - that eurodiesel I spoke of IS a V8! And it's no little crapbox. Top speed is "only" 155mph, and that's not because it cannot rev to 6000, but because it's speed limited. Just sayin'...

[Blank]

Area I live UK, South Devon (Rural Tourist Area) i got a crappy 1.4 astra cheap banger, mainly because my old  Renault Clio 1.8i Rsi got written off by somebody with no insurance whilst parked outside my house a few years back Grrrr!!!

But now I built my No Claims bonuses back up and cant afford to insure faster cars again I'll hopefully have a Subaru Impreza WRX Sportwagon soon as its fast, fun and practical for around here and not to expensive either for used ones. (and I just got a nice pay rise this year YAYYY!!)

Reasons why:
 considering I live in South Devon and most my travel, either to visit my parents, or go to the beach for example will involve a road like this or narrower 80% of the time:

http://www.slowtrav.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=1799&cat=621


add to this its probably damp for 8 moths of the year, so very slippy,  damp becomes black ice during the night for 3 months, and when it is eventually dry, all the water has washed mud onto the roads over the winter which then becomes slippy dust.

So as you can see there is no place in my life for a 8ft wide 1000hp muscle car anyway, as you'd never get the power down anyway and even a little slide to the side would put you in the hedge (though i'd be keen to give one a go for a laugh.)

during the summer we get crap driving tourists that cant drive backwards  in brand new cars they dont want to scratch and we end up with a very stop start, go, reverse, go, stop, swear, gesticulate at crap driver to go through the gap you've made by half driving into a hedge, then reverse again as the London bmw driver doesn't want to scratch his precious car, GRrrrrr


So the most practical and fun types of cars for this kinda area are the 4x4 Rally bred cars, or small hot hatches, small fast nimble quick breaking as you need to make that 50-200 yards to the next corner or passing place before the crappy tourist drives past it and cant reverse.

So If you tried to get a good 1/4 mile time here it would take a while as you'd spend half of it reversing back to a passing place anyway :-D

[sluggish]

If I could afford one I'd own an M5.  That being said I think Pontiac could probably build something comparable for less than half the price, which I would choose over the M5 even if I could afford the M5.

[Viking]

Originally posted by lazs2
It is simply easier and cheaper to get gut wrenching Hp out of American cars…

You know, you almost sound like you've actually tried it.

Originally posted by lazs2
The aberations viking/shlotz/luftwhiner shows and and others are so odd and rare that they are allmost nonexistent

Horse exhaust.

Originally posted by lazs2
Every city here has a booming performance industry…

Same here.

Originally posted by lazs2
If you can make 1000 hp with at twin turbo crap box... we can make 2000 with a real motor on twin turbos.

Lol, yeah. That must be why there are so many 2000 hp cars in America … wait, there aren't!

If production cars are any indicator then America eats Europe's dust. In 2005 the most powerful American production car, the Saleen S7 was on 25th place. There was even a Volkswagen more powerful than ANY American production car.

The 100 most powerful production cars in the world (up to 2005). What, 97 of them are European? Only 3 American? And the list includes the old muscle cars as well.

1. Bugatti EB 16.4 Veyron (2005) 1001
2. Porsche 962 Dauer (1992-1993) 730
3. Monte Carlo Centenaire GTB (1991-1992) 720
4. Edonis (2001) 715
5. McLaren F1 LM (1997-1997) 668
6. Ferrari Enzo (2003) 660
7. Koenigsegg CC8 S (2002) 655
8. McLaren F1 GTR (1996-1996) 636
9. McLaren F1 (1994-1997) 627
10. Mercedes Benz SLR (2004) 626
11. Mercedes Benz CLK GTR (1998-1998) 612
Porsche Carrera GT (2003) 612
Mercedes Benz W220 S65 AMG (2003) 612
Mercedes Benz C215 CL65 AMG (2004) 612
15. Bugatti EB 110 Supersport (1993-1995) 611
16. Ferrari F50 GT (1996-1996) 600
Volkswagen Nardo W12 (2002-2002) 600
Laraki Fulgura (2004) 600
19. Lamborghini Murcielago (2002) 580
20. Lamborghini Diablo GT (1999-2000) 575
21. Bugatti EB 110 (1992-1995) 560
22. Aston Martin Virage Vantage (1992-1999) 557
23. Pagani Zonda C12 S (2002) 555
Pagani Zonda Roadster (2003-2003) 555
25. Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 (2000-2001) 550
Pagani Zonda C12 S (2000-2001) 550
Maybach 57 (2002) 550
Maybach 62 (2002) 550
Bentley Continental GT (2003) 550
Saleen S7 (2002) 550
31. Jaguar XJ 220 (1992-1994) 549
32. Porsche 911 GT1 (1997-1998) 544
33. Lamborghini Diablo SV (1998-1999) 530
Lamborghini Diablo SV Roadster (1998-1999) 530
Lamborghini Diablo VT (1998-1999) 530
Lamborghini Diablo VT Roadster (1998-1999) 530
37. Mercedes Benz R129 SL73 AMG (1998-2001) 525
Lamborghini Diablo SE (1994-1996) 525
39. Ferrari F50 (1995-1996) 520
40. Lamborghini Diablo SV (1996-1998) 519
41. Ferrari 575M Maranello (2002) 515
Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (2002) 515
43. Mercedes Benz W220 S55 AMG (2002) 500
Mercedes Benz W220 S55 AMG Limousine (2002) 500
Mercedes Benz W220 S600 Limousine (2002) 500
Lamborghini Gallardo (2003) 500
Dodge Viper SRT 10 (2003) 500
BMW E60 M5 (2005) 500
49. Lamborghini Diablo (1990-1998) 492
Lamborghini Diablo VT (1992-1998) 492
Lamborghini Diablo VT Roadster (1995-1998) 492
52. Ferrari 550 Maranello (1996-2002) 485
Ferrari 550 Barchetta Pininfarina (2000-2000) 485
54. Ferrari F40 (1987-1991) 478
55. Mercedes Benz R230 SL55 AMG (2002) 476
Mercedes Benz W211 E55 AMG (2003) 476
57. Aston Martin Virage 6.3 (1991-1991) 465
58. Porsche 911 GT2 (2001) 462
59. Rolls Royce Phantom (2003) 460
60. Lamborghini LM 002 (1984-1991) 455
Lamborghini Countach Quattrovalvole (1987-1989) 455
Lamborghini Countach SE 25 (1989-1990) 455
63. Porsche 911 Turbo S (1998-1998) 450
Porsche 959 (1986-1988) 450
Aston Martin Vanquish (2002) 450
Bentley Arnage T (2002) 450
Jaguar XJR 15 (1991-1991) 450
Audi A6 1997 RS6 (2002-2003) 450
Porsche Cayenne Turbo (2003) 450
Aston Martin DB9 (2004) 450
71. Ferrari 456 GT (1992-1997) 442
Ferrari 456 GTA (1996-1997) 442
Ferrari 456 M GT (1998-2003) 442
Ferrari 456 M GTA (1998-2003) 442
75. Ferrari F512 M (1994-1996) 440
Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003) 440
77. Aston Martin Zagato (1986-1988) 432
78. Porsche 911 GT2 (1995-1997) 430
79. Ferrari 512 tr (1992-1994) 428
80. Bentley Continental T (1996-2002) 426
Bentley Azure Mulliner (1999-2003) 426
Bentley Continental R Mulliner (1999-2002) 426
Bentley Continental T Mulliner (1996-2002) 426
Bentley Continental SC Mulliner (1998-2000) 426
85. Dodge Charger 426ci Hemi (1966-1967) 425
Dodge Charger 426ci Hemi (1968-1971) 425
87. Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 420
Audi A8 1992 6.0 (2001-2002) 420
Audi A8 1992 L 6.0 (2001-2002) 420
Volkswagen Phaeton W12 (2002) 420
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Volante (1999) 420
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage (1999) 420
93. TVR Cerbera 4.5 (1997) 414
94. Porsche 911 Turbo (1995-1998) 408
Venturi 400 GT (1993-2000) 408
Aston Martin V8 Vantage Volante (1983-1989) 408
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (1983-1989) 408
Mercedes Benz W140 600 SE (1991-1993) 408
Mercedes Benz W140 600 SEL (1991-1993) 408
Isdera Commendatore 112i (1993-1994) 408

Originally posted by lazs2
viking/shlots/naziboy...   hot rods are street cars.  

Lol yes of course they are you old-timer, but they are not "streetcars". Ask the kids in town with the tricked out ricers what a "streetcar" is.

Calling me a Nazi now? You must be getting desperate.

[sluggish]

Man that list has some serious holes in it...

[Viking]

Originally posted by sluggish
Man that list has some serious holes in it...

Like what? Feel free to plug the holes.

[Neubob]

Originally posted by Viking
Like what? Feel free to plug the holes.

The current saleen s7 is a 750 hp twin turbo.

link

Better power to wieght ratio that the Veyron.

[Viking]

Yes I know. The list is from 2005. Now there would have been a couple more American cars on it like the new S7, Viper and Corvette z06.

[sluggish]

Originally posted by Viking
Like what? Feel free to plug the holes.

Well for starters there's the1969 Corvette L88 with 460 hp, the 1971 Chevelle SS 454 with 450 hp and the 2007 Corvette Z06 with 500 hp.  That's just off the top of my head.  There should be at least 25 more American cors on that list.  Caddy made a car with over 500 hp back in the day (I'm sure Laz knows what it is).

[Viking]

Like I said the list only goes to 2005, and only production cars too (minimum 100 made).

[Skuzzy]

Production cars are really not a good indicator.  The U.S. auto manufacturers are taxed based on thier average corporate gas mileage.  There are no European auto makers who are taxed like that.

The U.S. automakers have plenty of incentive to product low power cars in order to keep thier average gas mileage high enough to not pay enormous federal taxes.  It is this tax that drives the aftermarket.  And drives it very well.

When a U.S. maker does do a high power car, it will typically limit its production so as not to upset its CAFE rating.  The Ford GT and Shelby GT500 are good examples.  Same with the Corvette Z06.

So, you cannot do an apples to apples comparison between the European production and the U.S. production when looking  for who *can* produce the highest horsepower engines.  The list really is only valid to those who do not want to tweak thier vehicles.

[vorticon]

that list kinda proves lazs's point...all those cars are prohibitivly expensive.

a match to lazs's 69 el camino can be had for under 20 000 dollars.

[wooley]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Production cars are really not a good indicator.  The U.S. auto manufacturers are taxed based on thier average corporate gas mileage.  

Skuzzy - you are partially correct. In many parts of Europe, drivers are taxed based on the emission level (usually CO2) of their cars, therefore manufacturers are compelled to produce cars that meet certain emission standards and that usually mean lower power.

By the way, lets keep this argument in perspective. Lazs would have you believe that huge percentages of Americans are modifying their cars to have 500hp plus. They aren't. They are buying Toyota Camries and happy to leave the oily bits to their local stealership. Just like the European with his Renault Megane.

For 99% of people there's next to no difference between the reality of driving in America and driving in Europe. Other than Americans incorrectly believing sedans  look better than hatchbacks

[FastFwd]

Originally posted by Skuzzy
The U.S. auto manufacturers are taxed based on thier average corporate gas mileage.  There are no European auto makers who are taxed like that.

Yes, that's probably because with Euro gas prices, the problem resolves itself, by which I mean that very few people can afford to run 10mpg cars, whereas in America with cheap(er) gas more people can.

Some years ago, the British company Jaguar was fined heavily by an American court - because the average gas mileage of their cars was too low to meet these US requirements. Jaguar paid up - it was better to pay the fine than to tarnish their image by producing say a 3-dr hatchback to improve the overall average gas mileage of their fleet of cars offered for sale. Maybe they could have built a hatchback under a different name, just as Lexus = Toyota, Accura = Honda etc.

[lazs2]

This is really getting silly...  as was pointed out, you can get twin turbo Mustangs right from the dealer... you can have your Z06 with a huffer on it and a factory warranty and have about 600 hp...  both of those cars are affordable.... looks ast viking/schlotzs list of euro supercars....  the who's who of the ruling class are the only ones who can afford em.

You can build a car here with more hp than the most powerful euro supercar on the list for a tenth and..... you will be able to afford to drive it.

It is even more laughable to compare the euro modified scene for sheer size and money generated per year with Americas multi billion dollar one.

Some of you may not believe that there are a lot of 500 hp cars running around you but you are mistaken... sure.. there are a lot of metrosexuals driving camrays and such but somebody is buying all those billions of dollars worth of performance parts.

But then... no one answered my question.... How many of you who watch the show or who are talking about this stuff even change your own oil much less build a drivetrain or suspension?

lazs