Author Topic: Global Warming  (Read 16336 times)

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Global Warming
« Reply #615 on: March 15, 2007, 02:18:28 PM »
"Would it be fair to say laz, that you think human pollution has had zero affect on our climate?"

nooo... that would not be a fair thing to say at all.   It is obvious that if I pee in the mississippi river that I will drive up the salt content.

That does not mean that I can have any noticeable affect or that what small affect I have will not be corrected by nature.

If the mississippi suddenly got a lot saltier...  I would not think that looking at one man peeing in it would be very productive.   there would be some other source that was causing it.

lazs

Offline Hawco

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 650
Global Warming
« Reply #616 on: March 15, 2007, 04:02:30 PM »

Offline FastFwd

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Global Warming
« Reply #617 on: March 15, 2007, 06:02:29 PM »
Hawco - did you see that program? Was it any good?

Offline Hawco

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 650
Global Warming
« Reply #618 on: March 15, 2007, 06:29:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FastFwd
Hawco - did you see that program? Was it any good?

A friend of mine told me about it, hopefully be on youtube soon so I can watch it, must say, I'm not all that convinced about man creating global warming.

Offline Sabre

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
      • Rich Owen
Global Warming
« Reply #619 on: March 16, 2007, 10:59:00 AM »
I've seen it.  Excellent program, though a little cheesy at times with their music a graphics.  On the otherhand, it nicely brings together all the counter evidence against man-made global warming.  I believe the cheesy parts were to make people realize how silly and weak some of the so-called evidence supporting man-made global warming really is.  Even if you're skeptical of the skeptics, this is a must-see as a counter-balance to Gore's propaganda piece.  If our schools really want to teach our kids to think critically (which I doubt, given the liberal control over public education), they should show Gore's movie and this one back to back, then encourage open discussion and debate.  Of course, we can't even get that from our elected representatives or Academia, so why should we expect it of public education?:(
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Global Warming
« Reply #620 on: March 17, 2007, 10:51:36 AM »
The documentary explains why it is not in the best interest of the left to allow any debate...

Perhaps we all recall the "scientists" in the UK who wanted to make it illegal to say anything against man made global warming..  does it not bother the religious acolytes here to see who they are in bed with.... do you hold your nose when you look at who is at the demonstrations?

lazs

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Global Warming
« Reply #621 on: March 18, 2007, 04:31:46 AM »
Okay, this is just getting out of hand...

Quote
source
Most Germans want speed limit on autobahn
BERLIN (Reuters) - Nearly two in three Germans believe a speed limit should be introduced on the car-loving nation's notoriously fast autobahns, according to a new poll.

The EU's environment commissioner Stavros Dimas and environmental activists in Germany have said speeding on the autobahn wastes energy and called for a speed limit.

The poll for ZDF television published on Friday showed 54 percent of Germans favor a speed limit of 130 kph (80 mph) while another 10 percent would like a limit below that level.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline FastFwd

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Global Warming
« Reply #622 on: March 18, 2007, 06:31:13 AM »
HMcG - the link is dead.

The two lane autobahnen in Germany are already subject (in most cases) to a limit of 120km/h.  The three lane autobahnen are the ones where there's no limit.

I think there are plenty of other measures that could be taken, and which would have greater effect than imposing an autobahn speed limit. That would be another empty gesture, like reusing a supermarket carrier bag, and believing that this noble gesture will save the planet. What was the analogy - rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic?

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Global Warming
« Reply #623 on: March 18, 2007, 08:31:04 AM »
Climate change: An inconvenient truth... for C4 This expert in oceanography quoted in last week's debunking of the Gore green theory says he was 'seriously misrepresented'
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
Published: 11 March 2007
It was the television programme that set out to show that most of the world's climate scientists are misleading us when they say humanity is heating up the Earth by emitting carbon dioxide. And The Great Global Warming Swindle, screened by Channel 4 on Thursday night, convinced many viewers that it is indeed untrue that the gas is to blame for global warming.

But now the programme - and the channel - is facing a serious challenge to its own credibility after one of the most distinguished scientists that it featured said his views had been "grossly distorted" by the film, and made it clear that he believed human pollution did warm the climate.

Professor Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology said he had been "completely misrepresented" by the programme, and "totally misled" on its content. He added that he is considering making a formal complaint.

A Channel 4 spokesman said: "The film was a polemic that drew together the well-documented views of a number of respected scientists to reach the same conclusions. This is a controversial film but we feel that it is important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the contributors has concerns about his contribution we will look into that."

Any complaint would provoke a crisis at Channel 4, now recovering from the Jade Goody Big Brother storm. It had to make a rare public apology after the Independent Television Commission convicted previous programmes on environmental issues by the same film-maker, Martin Durkin, of similar offences - and is already facing questions on why it accepted another programme from him.

The commission found that the editing of interviews with four contributors to a series called Against Nature had "distorted or misrepresented their known views".

Professor Wunsch said: "I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled."

When told what the commission had found, he said: "That is what happened to me." He said he believes it is "an almost inescapable conclusion" that "if man adds excess CO2 to the atmosphere, the climate will warm".

He went on: "The movie was terrible propaganda. It is characteristic of propaganda that you take an area where there is legitimate dispute and you claim straight out that people who disagree with you are swindlers. That is what the film does in any area where some things are subject to argument."

Mr Durkin last night said that Professor Wunsch was "most certainly not duped into appearing into the programme" and that it "had not in any way misrepresented what he said".

Before the programme was shown, the IoS asked Channel 4 why it had commissioned another film from Mr Durkin and, further, whether it was making any special checks on its accuracy.

A spokesman said the programme made by Mr Durkin for which it had had to apologise was a decade old, adding: "We treat Martin as any other film-maker."

* David Cameron will tomorrow unveil three schemes to tax air travel in order to combat global warming. He is to consult on whether to impose VAT or fuel duty on domestic flights, institute a flight tax targeted at the most polluting engines, or to set up a "green miles scheme" to tax frequent flyers at a higher rate. The revenue raised would be used for tax cuts to help families.

The cold, hard facts about global warming

What do most scientists believe caused global warming?

The vast majority are convinced it is human emissions of carbon dioxide. It was established scientifically 180 years ago - and has never been seriously disputed - that natural levels of the gas given off by decaying vegetation and the oceans help to keep the Earth warm; without it, and other natural greenhouse gases, the planet would be some 20C colder and we would freeze. Adding even the so far relatively small amounts from human activities makes us warmer.

Has the world warmed before?

Yes, and big warmings over prehistoric times were not started by increasing CO2 levels; changes in solar activity are more likely. Levels of the gas started rising some 800 years into the warming, but then probably reinforced it, making it bigger and longer. Temperature and CO2 are interdependent; when one goes up the other follows. This time it is different because vast amounts of the gas are being artificially put into the atmosphere by humans.

What about more recent history?

There was a warm period in Europe in the Middle Ages, again probably caused by solar activity, but it does not seem to have been a worldwide phenomenon, although records are scanty.

So is the sun responsible now?

Some sceptics say so and probably it played the major role until quite recently. But over the past three decades, solar activity has scarcely risen, while temperatures have shot up - a fact disguised in the film. What has gone up is CO2 and even top sceptic Nigel Lawson admits it is "highly likely" that the gas has "played a significant part" in global warming this century.

---------------

Big screen TV - $2,500
Ammunition making equipment and supplies - $500
Refreshments - $15

Watching a British (*gasp*) documentary about swindlers apparently MADE by swindlers and claiming it as fact - Priceless
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Gh0stFT

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1736
Global Warming
« Reply #624 on: March 18, 2007, 09:55:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Okay, this is just getting out of hand...
Most Germans want speed limit on autobahn


BS.

i'm not one of them for sure.
Whats wrong with no speed limit? do people think we in
germany drive allways at the limit, as fast as possible?
Its about the freedom, if its raining or snow nobody is
driving fast even it is no speed limit. If we have alot of traffic
on the road, nobody can drive fast anyway.
Actually i drive (cruise) mostly around 120-140km/h on Autobahns,
but sometimes when its less traffic mainly night times, i drive at
230km/h speed nonstop 100km or more.
Imagine you have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, 300km/h and more Baby!
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Global Warming
« Reply #625 on: March 18, 2007, 10:08:02 AM »
speed limits are not for safety, speed limits are for more government  control of the people and to raise funds for the govt.

governments always need more control and more funds. That's their business, control the people and raise and spend more money.

Offline Gunthr

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
      • http://www.dot.squat
Global Warming
« Reply #626 on: March 18, 2007, 10:18:36 AM »
Professor Wunsch may disagree with the overall conclusions of the film, however, the words that came out of his mouth are the words that came out of his mouth.  I'm going to have to review it to see exactly what he said.  

Curval, at least one of the assertions made by the filmmakers, that the climate issues have been politicized, and superhyped should be obvious to you.  I think its wild how non-scientists like us get all caught up in it and make our proclimations about what we "know" is true.

The fact is, the scientific community doesn't know all the answers yet on this issue, it is still being studied, so we should try to keep at least a part of our minds open.
"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Global Warming
« Reply #627 on: March 18, 2007, 10:29:31 AM »
LOL.. curval finds one scientist on the program that feels he was missrepresented and uses that to say the whole program is bunk.. there were a half a dozen of the most esteemed people in their fields all saying the same thing...  even the guy who feels put upon really did say what he said in it.

And who is on the other side?   how do they stack up?   algore?   creator of the internet?   inspiration for the book love story?

The facts are there... watch the documentary.  Did you curval?  I did.. I watched "inconvieniet truth" too....   The missleading was a lot more obvious in "truth".

The "swindle" show brings up stuff that is simple fact...  Your guy can say all he wants about "scientists" all agreeing co2 made by man is warming the planet in alarming ways but....

as "swindle" points out.. those people.. the ones you tout.. did the UN study and.. they concluded that there was no evidence that man made co2 was a major factor..  that part was removed from the study... most of the "scientists" in the study had nothing to do with science (many were reviewers) and if they did they were not in the field of global climate.

watch the show... Listen to the real scientists and look at their credentials..  

The least you can conclude is that some of the most prestigious scientists on the planet... ones that are the formost authorities in the fields being discussed...  they don't agree with the panic mongers..

One has to conclude that the science is not set in stone.  That at the very least... not everyone who should know... agrees.

I will bet that the sun will get a lot more focus than co2 in the next few years.

It was a very important film in that it provided some counterpoint to the blatant lies and the "man made global warming" machine...

There is a whole lot there...  watch the thing.   Don't be like most liberals and only watch the side that you agree with.  Hell... us conservatives and individualists are pretty much forced to watch/listen to the left at every turn... we at least see both sides...

grow a pair and watch some of the greatest climate experts on the planet and see what they have to say.

lazs

Offline FastFwd

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Global Warming
« Reply #628 on: March 18, 2007, 11:00:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
The fact is, the scientific community doesn't know all the answers yet on this issue, it is still being studied, so we should try to keep at least a part of our minds open.
Quite correct! :aok But it cuts both ways and I feel we should be ready to make changes to the way we live, as and when required.

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Global Warming
« Reply #629 on: March 18, 2007, 11:12:39 AM »
lol

You are just as bad as the global warming alarmists lazs...and just as dangerous.

You will swallow anything that backs up your case.  You then do EXACTLY what the alarmists do and label anyone who is against you a radical.

Fact is I am not a radical as I have repeatedly tried to tell you.  But, you adopt a "with us or against us" attitude and attack.

Yes I watched the show...I haven't seen Gore's though.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain