Author Topic: Piracy: A general discussion  (Read 7608 times)

Offline Charon

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2007, 11:44:21 AM »
The reality for me, is that because my older but perfectly functional, $3000 bigscreen HDTV (1080I) doesn't have a HDCP compliant HDMI interface I cannot take advantage of Blue Ray or HD-DVD or upsampling DVD players, since they all revert to 480p if an analog component video connection is used.

I refuse to upgrade my excellent TV solely to take advantage of these technologies. Hurts their business as a result and pisses me off, expecially since there is now an easy workaround for the real pirates out there.

Charon

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2007, 01:32:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
For the record, MiniD, I DID answer you. The ONLY reason anybody would implement Starforce is marketing hype, exaggerating the fears of game developers to the point they need to do something, and then blowing smoke up their aft-end.


I thought I was fairly clear on that. Thanks for ignoring me and not reading my threads, I think I'll return the favor from now on.
That's not an answer. That's rhetoric.

As for you skuzzy, I'm noting your comment on what all developers will and won't do with extra requirements. I don't think you speak for anyone but yourself. People share your view, but I'm pretty sure it's still JUST your view.

The other thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread at all:

Quote
Some of this may be irrelevant because HDCP is activated by a flag present on the movie discs themselves. Currently, no currently released titles utilize HDCP protection, and rumors abound that it could be 2010 before movies with HDCP are released.


Doesn't that tend to indicate that there's still a long way to go on developing this "standard" and maybe knee-jerk reaction is a bit premature?

Offline Kev367th

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2007, 02:07:59 PM »
Interesting scenario for you -

The playback device and the display device decide on a mutual AKE value with which to encrypt the content, all the video content will be encrypted using this mutual value.  Additionally, the system will check every couple of seconds to ensure the integrity of both the keys and the link.

So sometime down the line the keys are cracked and those keys are added to the revokation list.

Those keys are automatically added to your devices revokation list via  System Renewability Messages and the device stops passing HD content.
These SRM's and revokation lists will even be on HD DVD's and Blu-rays.

Where do you go from there?
You have a perfectly legally bought chain of HDCP devices of which one/two or all will no longer pass HD content.

Does the manufacturer have to replace every piece of HDCP equipment affected, or is more than likely going to be 'tough, get over it'.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 02:13:47 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline republic

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2007, 02:55:33 PM »
Just curious, is there ever an example of some media lacking DRM and was pirated such that the devloper/publisher/investors did not profit from it?  (Software, movies, music, etc.)  Yet how many times has DRM caused games to be unplayable and cd's to be unreadable?

DRM creates monopolies.  I love my iPod but...since I PAID for all that music, shouldn't I be able to listen to it on ANY device?  Sure I CAN, but not without removing the DRM.

It seems to be the fear of a "lossless copy" drives DRM more than the actual theft statistics.  Which loses more money...piracy or the heavy handed attempts at preventing piracy?

Was the world so bleak for devloper/publishers before copy protection was popular?  How did Id Software ever mange with users being able to replicate Doom like a batch of bunnies?  HTC basically gives away a free flight simulator to whoever would want it...yet they still manage to profit.  Stardock has no DRM in Galactic Civilizations, yet it's one of the hottest selling space strategy games ever.

DRM isn't the devil...I want the devlopers to make money...so they can give me better and better content.  But do we really need to design an OS around DRM?  Do we need to be repressed by a DRM license on things we willingly pay for?

Just my thoughts...


ps.  Help help I'm being repressed!  Come witness the violence inherent in the system!
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Offline Skuzzy

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2007, 03:03:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
As for you skuzzy, I'm noting your comment on what all developers will and won't do with extra requirements. I don't think you speak for anyone but yourself. People share your view, but I'm pretty sure it's still JUST your view.
I'm all aglow that you would note my comments.
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Offline Roscoroo

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2007, 03:14:11 PM »
I'm getting that Warm Skuzzy Feeling .......  Either that or i pee'd my pants .





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Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2007, 03:15:03 PM »
Either way, that is certainly TMI!!!!!!!  LOL!
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Offline DAVENRINO

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Piracy: A general discussion
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2007, 05:18:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Well, it just proves the futility of trying to protect digital content via encryption.

I, for one, would like to see it all fail.  I am a videophile and audiophile.  I love my toys and will pay a lot of money for them.  However, I refuse to buy one HD or BluRay disc, nor player, simply due to the fact I cannot make a backup copy of the media.  

While I will not support piracy by obtaining pirated content, I will be rooting for them to just bust this stuff all to heck and back.  I would rather see HD content pulled from the shelves than the current implementation being done.

I wish people had more guts to walk away from this type of technology.  Technology which hampers the end user is not good and should never be considered an option.  This is not the way to stop piracy.  It only makes it worse.


The HDCP BS implemented in Home Theater hardware in the name of DRM has been a disaster for the consumer.  Just look at any of the forums such as -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=168

Consumers spend thousands of $ to legally purchase hardware only to find that various components won't connect via HDMI due to HDCP handshake issues.  They can't even watch their legally purchased HD content once thanks to DRM.  Thanks Hollywood.

I can't wait for the HDCP compliant video cards. :(  PC owners will be added to the list of screaming consumers.
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2007, 05:53:54 PM »
Skuzzy,

You're correct about copy protection methods.  In my previous job working for a software firm that made nav software for boaters....we ran into all sorts of issues we hadnt foreseen.

In the case of several customers, we had a simple first-time install reg code.  They called our toll free number, or emailed us the numbers/letters that was being prompted and we'd provide the code to "unlock" the program.  The users had 30 days, from install, to obtain this info.

However, we had several users who had a variety of Windows OS crashes that, upon reinstall, the software wouldnt see the fragged reg entry.  Or, since these folks were worldwide sailing, they simply weren't in phone range or email contact.  

So in short, what we thought sounded reasonable turned out to be quite unrealistic in light of the environment our customers were in.  Not every customer was a Navy cruiser with instant satellite telephone abilities.

Back to Starforce...

Like most flight sim folks, I check the reviews before diving head first into a new game.  Many of the reviews I read on Lock-On clearly warned about Starforce.  Some linked to web forums where the Starforce software was conflicting with I/O issues/drivers for things such as DVD/CD writers.  Who wants to chance trashing their system setup for that?

Offline republic

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« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2007, 08:00:09 AM »
I've braved starforce for a select few games, Silent Hunter 3, Lock On Modern Air Combat, and Flanker2.  I usually install the games and remove starforce, run with a cracked exe, whatever it takes to play without starforce.

I hate the games that force you to have the cd in the drive.  If your already using the cd-key "DRM" then let the poor bloke play without having to dig around for a cd.  Many of my games I ran with cracked exe's simply because i dont' want to have to swap cd's around all the time.  I guess I'm an ADD gamer...I usually play 3 or 4 at any given moment.

Currently it's AH, Locomotion, IL2:1946, and Evil Genius (quite possibly the most hilarous building game ever).
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2007, 02:47:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by republic
I've braved starforce for a select few games, Silent Hunter 3, Lock On Modern Air Combat, and Flanker2.  I usually install the games and remove starforce, run with a cracked exe, whatever it takes to play without starforce.

I hate the games that force you to have the cd in the drive.  If your already using the cd-key "DRM" then let the poor bloke play without having to dig around for a cd.  Many of my games I ran with cracked exe's simply because i dont' want to have to swap cd's around all the time.  I guess I'm an ADD gamer...I usually play 3 or 4 at any given moment.

Currently it's AH, Locomotion, IL2:1946, and Evil Genius (quite possibly the most hilarous building game ever).


Exactly, I for example have a 6-year old kid who regularly trashes dvd's and cd's if they're left around (say, in the dvd-rom). It would be a total nightmare having to leave valuable game medias in the player only to be destroyed by a 3-6 year old tag team.

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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2007, 04:26:02 AM »
News flash! Two thirds of _recording industry_ execs support getting rid of DRM as a way of speeding up digital media sales.. Who'd've thunk it? :huh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6362069.stm
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2007, 11:36:29 AM »
So... MS's real reason for DRM becomes clear, controlling the Galaxy....

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2007, 11:55:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
News flash! Two thirds of _recording industry_ execs support getting rid of DRM as a way of speeding up digital media sales.. Who'd've thunk it? :huh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6362069.stm
You need to re-read that article.

Offline Sundowner

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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2007, 12:15:29 PM »
Recently Steve Jobs made some waves with his thoughts on DRM.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

The CEO of Macrovison, one of the leading DRM providers, responded to Job's open letter.

http://www.macrovision.com/company/news/drm/response_letter.shtml

But a Slashdot.org reader found the Translation From PR-Speak to English of Selected Portions of Macrovision CEO Fred Amoroso’s Response to Steve Jobs’s ‘Thoughts on Music’.

http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/macrovision_translation

:lol

Regards,
Sun
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