Stop The War, Support Our Troops

[midnight Target]

LOL

or as Monk would say.. "You make me LOL out loud".

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by indy007
And we have a winner!

Lots & lots of these rallies & protests are organized & run by ANSWER, who are hardcore Stalinists.

The Free Mumia crowd... who thinks its okay to shoot a police officer in the face with a shotgun.

there's even more sub-groups, but I don't have the time to list it all Maybe one day...

Mumia had a registered .38.    Get your facts straight if you're gonna post stuff like this.   We need to educate before anything can be looked upon in a clear light.  

Why is he still alive?    That case is a fustercluck, and there is NO denying the Dept. was Corrupt, and Faulkner (Philly PD who was killed) was named by other cops on the force, that HE WAS a "dirty cop".    You have cops on "both sides of the fence on this case", which is why Mumia is still alive.   If "some cops" are willing to "break the code", it means something.  

Regardless, no "shotgun" was used in the shooting.

[dmf]

Originally posted by Hawco
I see the point where you are coming from DMF, I really do, but win what?
let me explain further,
This "War on terrorisim" is quite frankly the wrong term to use INMHO,

--The enemy is stateless, confined mostly to local cells; the movement as a whole crosses national boundaries.
--Stateless terrorism is best fought as a police action, with vigilant policing on the local level.
--Anti-terrorism requires cooperation from every nation, not a limited number of political allies.
--We should not aim at total victory any more than we aim for total victory over crime.
--Keeping the threat down to a manageable danger should be our primary goal.
--Reducing public fear and anticipation of attacks should be a secondary goal
The Bush administration either ignored or underplayed all of these, choosing maximum public fear, unilateral action, and the futile promise of total victory instead. Now that we are coming out of the fog or war--at least outside right-wing circles--we still need to ask if the fight against terrorism is being won or lost
The Fight, not the "war" I belive is being won on a daily basis, but not in Iraq.
There are significant signs that it is being won, but not on the Iraqi front. The war galvanized militants who would otherwise have remained quiet. Invasion raised the specter of a Christian crusade, the most hated aspect of Muslim history. Young dissident males, largely unemployed and lower class, joined the jihadist cause while millions of sympathizers suddenly rethought the issue of al-Qaida. As with Hezbollah after the Israeli invasion, an extremist group like al-Qaida could clothe itself in patriotism and civil defense.
Ultimately the reason terrorism is losing is that it is pointless. Al-Qaida has a negative vision. Short of creating fear, threatening the West, and hating Israel, terrorists offer no future, no productive solutions for the endemic problems across the Middle East. As we have experienced since 9/11, fear subsides, and the few attacks that succeed can be endured. Compared to all-out war, the number of casualties inflicted since 9/11, not counting the Iraq war (which we started voluntarily), has been minimal, and even including Iraq casualties of U.S. troops, the fatalities are meager compared to annual traffic deaths and random crime.
The real harm inflicted by al-Qaida is that it allowed our militarists and reactionaries to ply the American public with unwholesome fear and promises of victory that are illusory. We permitted ourselves to fall, not to al-Qaida's level, but lower than we have ever sunk in terms of torture, secret prisons, total disregard for prisoners' rights, and the unnecessary loss of civil rights and freedoms. Only in that sense can al-Qaida claim success. We didn't have to allow them even this pitiful achievement.

k let me rephrase that : I hope our troops come out of it alive, thats probably about the best I can hope for at this point

[RedTop]

Just a thought here......

What if the Generals and Soldiers , Marines , Airman and Sailors were left alone to fight the war.

What if the media was told to LEAVE...or better yet...not allowed there to "Report" what they see.

I'm not throwing stones or anything...just wondering....

If the generals were left alone...and the politicans "Input" were left out....think we would have taken a different course? Think the war would be going differently?

[Nilsen]

The military is employed by the leaders who is emplyed by the civilian population that voted for them.

Remove the civilian (you and me) populations control at the top off that chain and you have a military dictatorship.

The media for good and bad is the only control the civilian leadership (you and me) has of the leaders and the military they employ. They are not capable of controlling them selves if left unchecked.

[GRUNHERZ]

How much can the US Army do to stop terrorist attacks on Iraqi civilian soft targets?

Attacks on our forces seem to be a side show these days, the main event is slaughtering as many of the other sides civvies as possible.

[RedTop]

Originally posted by Nilsen
The military is employed by the leaders who is emplyed by the civilian population that voted for them.

Remove the civilian (you and me) populations control at the top off that chain and you have a military dictatorship.

The media for good and bad is the only control the civilian leadership (you and me) has of the leaders and the military they employ. They are not capable of controlling them selves if left unchecked.

^ is me squaddie

Good Point:)

I'll ponder on another question to ask...but right now Im going upstairs in the building I work in....to say so long to a State Trooper that I have struck a friendship up with , who is being sent to Baghdad Iraq.

[Gunslinger]

I am a firm beleiver that you cannot support the troops without supporting what they are in fact doing.  I am not an arm chair general, I am one of those troops who wears the uniform proudly that does not think the democrats or others has my intrest at heart when they play politics.

Bottom line is we are fighting radicals and AQ in Iraq right now.  If we pull out, they win.  When we speak of pulling out....they get stronger.

The democrats lost this war for us back in 2004 when they made it a referendum against Bush.  Half of them voted for the invasion to begin with now they use our troops, and this war as a pawn in a big chess game against what they see as the real enemy.....Bush and fellow republicans.

[soda72]

Originally posted by bsdaddict
"The soldier, above all other people, prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war". - Douglas MacArthur

"The order not to bomb the Yalu bridges was the most indefensible and ill-conceived decision ever forced on a field commander in our nation's history." - Douglas MacArthur

[oboe]

Gunslinger,

What do you do with the 42% of troops who now disapprove Bush's handling of the war?

And only 41% of the troops surveyed now believe we should have gone to war in the first place.     13% of them believe we should have NO troops in Iraq.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2006/12/tns.troopspol06l1229/

The Democrats couldn't find their tulips from their elbows in 2004 but now all of the sudden they "lost" this war.

Blame, blame, finger-point and more blame.

[john9001]

Originally posted by oboe
And only 41% of the troops surveyed now believe we should have gone to war in the first place.     13% of them believe we should have NO troops in Iraq.
 

Ike addressing the troops just before D-day::  men do you want to invade france knowing many of you will die on the beaches or do you want to go back home to the USA?

lets see a show of hands.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Have you checked to see how the wounded are being treated when they get home?  Maybe once you really understand that then you can understand why people want to end the war.  First you have to put down the RUSHpipe.

Do you have first hand knowledge of their treatment? Would you like some first hand knowledge? I'd be happy to supply it.

As far as people pissing and moaning about the war, it's usually people who don't have to fight it, or have loved ones fighting it that scream the most. It never crosses your self rightious minds that all your negativity hurts the efforts of our troops. Then again it's easy to be an idealiest when you or yours are not in harms way.

 You want a real perpestive of what the Soldiers, Marines, and their families think? Turn off CNN, go to Walter Reed, or BAMC, look these guys in the eyes, and listen to thier story.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Which one of those had Iraqis involved again? I forget.

They forgot to mention the Barracks in Saudi Arabia
And the attempted assasination of a former president of the United States.
Both linked Directly to Iraq
Or the Support of Hamas who is second only to AlQueda in killing Americans

So what?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
They forgot to mention the Barracks in Saudi Arabia

If you're talking about the Khobar Towers, Iran is actually the suspect with possible assistance from Al-Queda (another example of Iran and Al-Queda working together)

And the attempted assasination of a former president of the United States.

The only thing that can only be really directly linked to Iraq.  Clinton dropped the ball on this one and should have taken Saddam out then.  But using that as an excuse almost 10 years later to go to war is a tad too late.

Both linked Directly to Iraq

Nope

Or the Support of Hamas who is second only to AlQueda in killing Americans

What terrorist action against the US has Hamas committed?  Certain members of Hamas have threatened to attack the US but to date Hamas has never carried out any direct terrorist actions against the United States for our support of Israel.


ack-ack

[Hap]

Originally posted by oboe
now all of the sudden they "lost" this war.

Oboe, ignore the Dems.  Just look at the bi-partisan report or commission or whatever it is called.

No one, I know and take seriously says "the war is lost."

Everyone I take seriously acknowledges mistakes -- no big deal there humans err -- and seeks the best resolution to a knotty problem.

My "beef" is that I think and believe the Bush Admin "over sold" the need for us to go to war, and did so with some qualms that were kept quiet purposely.

There's a ton of things I find more important than the war.   Here's 3 leaving out the rest of the "ton."


Manufacturing
Marriage
Abortion
Immigration

There are plenty of "people," who talk lots.  In here is no exception.  I don't care what political persuasion they are either.  Much of the talk is pretty much nonesense.  Not all of course.

I look for serious people talking seriously about serious things.  Of course, that knocks off many in here, and I would imagine many who are in the "infotainment" business.

Notice I did not say "all."

All the Best,

hap