Triple Buffs Should GO

[Patches1]

Just how do we improve the current Bomber experience?

Remember to take into account all of the new folks who wish to succeed in their initial sorties versus the well qualified veteran bomber pilots who have had the experience of traveling through all of the Aces High changes to date.

To me, heavy bombers dive bombing a target are no more an anomaly than jeeps that can kill Tiger tanks. However, little is spoken about Jeeps crawling up a Tigers rear end...perhaps because the GV perspective is limited to the ground...until bombers arrive?

Just a question?

[Wolf14]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
...Seriously though, who needs an escort fighter when a single gunner can bring 6 to 15 guns to bear on a target? Am I the only guy who flies bombers that wants it to require the same effort and offer the same challenge as everything else in the game?.....

Hub I see you point to a degree I think and I'd personaly like to have wind back at alts abouve 16k. I used to have a blast with the old system, climbing to 30k, calibrating, alotting for the drift caused by the wind, releaseing my load to carpet bomb a town, and seeing them all fall where I pretty much wanted them.

Doing all that was a chalenge to me. It took more time than I think most want to give, but it was something I worked at to make happen correctly. you couldnt hit hangers at that alt because of the wind and having to go below 16k kinda gave the defenders a chance to get to an alt to intercept. As the model is set now, yes the calibration is easier, but adding the wind back I think would bring things back into perspective.

Now A question I have for yall bashing the "Laser" guns the buffs have.

Do you think its fair that a set of bombers which has took time to climb to a resonable alt and make a legit drop wheather its a pin point or carpet drop only to get shot down by the same person through attrition?

I vote to not nerf the bombers any at all until something is in place to prevent the same person from comming back at you in a new plane and getting a garunteed kill through attrition.

Example for those who may not be following me:

I'm at 24k flying home after a good bomb run.
Player 1234 comes in, takes a few shots at me and maybe takes a gun or two before I can shoot him down. Hell even with an escort they can still get in to make this happen. I'm not dead, but I'm now handicapped because of losing a gun(s).

Now on the way home I get attacked by another plane and this time I get an engine on fire. After shooting the guy down I found out its 1234 guy again. He was in a new plane with a known intercept course and I am in damaged goods.

So I'm flying along and sure enough another contact appears and this time I get shot down by 1234.


A bomber cant run or manuver like a fighter and to be whittled down by the same guy is quite frankly a big crock of poopy. I dont think that aspect alone is a point to good fair gameplay. I have every right to land my kills as the fighter guys do. The same fella that keeps comming back has many advantages already at hand and I am pretty much a garunteed kill through attrition.

So until there is something like a "Defense Bubble" that extends outside gun range preventing a fighter who has already lost to an attempted attack of a formation of bombers for say 20 minutes, the "Laser" Guns and Formations need to stay.

This of course wouldnt apply to multiple planes, just to the idiot that decides to be a griefer and keep attacking for the garunteed kill through attrition.

Wolfy

[CHECKERS]

One Bummer Pilot , One Bommer .... simple as that !




 Also bring their top warp dive speeds back to reaility.....

  I flew Bommers in AW FR  loved um, lots of fun ...



   Regards
 
   CHECKERS

[hubsonfire]

There was a discussion of GVs, specifically about the lack of a collision model, and the ability of jeeps to exploit this. Basically,IIRC, a collision model affecting GVs could result in vehicles getting welded together, or flying apart at high speed, so we had to accept one unrealistic scenario to avoid an even worse one.

I think that's why you see more mention of formation kamikazis than jeeps.

[Krusty]

Wolf, you make an absurd argument. So what if a pilot reups? It takes him 10 minutes to climb back up to your alt. You shot him down. TWICE. That tells you a little something about the effectiveness of your guns.

If he didn't, somebody else would have. It doesn't matter if the same player reups 4 times in a row (it would take over an hour to do this, and he'd have to die almost instantly,... but still, it's possible), or if 1 pilot died, called out the location and heading, and another pilot took up the call, died, called out the heading and location, and another pilot took up the call, and so on and so forth.

Arguing that people reupping is gamey is about as stupid as asking for a "defensive bubble around the bombers".

If you're still over the frakking target 20 minutes later you deserve to be attacked by the same guy multiple times. It takes less than 5 minutes for a bomber at 15k to cross an entire sector. You can enter radar range, bomb the target 3-4 minutes later, and shoot somebody down, then head for home. If he follows you back, you're out of radar range before he's even at 10k alt, and only getting further away.

If you get shot down by the same guy over and over, it means you've screwed up your mission and hung around over enemy land asking for it.

You can outrun him, if he just takes off. You can out gun him (hell, you even said you shot him down 2x in a row). Yet historically the bomber you were in would have been caught and killed in a fraction of the time.

And you still want MORE benefits/advantages????

invisible force field that keeps him from attacking again?!?!?!

OMG... dude.... think about what you're typing.

[blkmgc]

Originally posted by CHECKERS
One Bummer Pilot , One Bommer .... simple as that !




 Also bring their top warp dive speeds back to reaility.....

  I flew Bommers in AW FR  loved um, lots of fun ...



   Regards
 
   CHECKERS

Agreed....


As long as there are 1 163 and 1 262 per 1000 of any other aircraft sortied. As it is, when you get toa strat target, the closest large airfield looks like Laguardia. Thats total arcade game stuff right there.

[hubsonfire]

Wolf, I disagree on preventing players from reupping. Those same people who keep coming back, while irritating at times, helped me improve my gunnery, and rack up easy kills. Also, it would penalize those who defend fields, and would be bad for gameplay on the whole, IMO.

The wind thing, eh... it's too predictable, and in a map with the 3 country setup, would mean someone's always got a tailwind, and the other side is going to have a crosswind or headwind, so someone's got easier bombing, and someone's got a harder time of it. Unfair IMO. Now, if wind could be randomized, or maybe even add turbulence or moving fronts or whatever... that would be cool, but probably a nightmare to coad. Too much work for HTC for the same results. I would think that it would be much easier to randomize the bomb spread to simulate the effects of wind or turbulence or whatever, but I really don't know.

Also, and I'll probably make more friends with this one, I'd can the 163s if formations were removed as well. 262s I'd leave in, as they're more expensive, and pretty rarely seen, at least when I'm on.

[Wolf14]

Originally posted by Krusty
OMG... dude.... think about what you're typing.

Sorry dude never have been good at typing what I'm trying to say. As far as shooting the same guy down twice....I'm sorry Its not my fault he didnt learn the first time. He had his chance the first time to get me then and it didnt work. I already dropped my bombs fended off his attack once and just want to get home and land. I have nothing else to drop so I am really nothing more than an offensively empty dot on his radar.


When I climb to 30k I tend to fly 50-100 miles behind enemy lines. So I am still trying to get out of there at the 15 minute mark, but I guess from your comment I musta did something to mess up my mission. Sorry I didnt go out and buy your book about playing the game your way.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Krusty
Yet historically the bomber you were in would have been caught and killed in a fraction of the time.

I admire you're persistence Krusty, but this argument never gets any less tiresome.  Show us, through some sort of credible historic documentation, something that supports your point, and I'll be quiet.  While you pay absolutely no regard to that which I post, I promise I'll give yours due deference.

[Wolf14]

Originally posted by Krusty
Yet historically the bomber you were in would have been caught and killed in a fraction of the time.

And since you want to talk in terms of what is or is not historicaly correct, The fella I jusy happened to shoot down wouldnt  be able to re-up in a plane 25miles in front of me and re-intercept me either.

So please Krusty, think about what your typing before you type it.

[Patches1]

Seems...I've hit a nerve...


"You don't know me, you have zero interaction with me in the game, and yet you ignore what I say, substitute some contrived reasoning in place of my own, and claim that my only goal is to ruin your fun. That's simply not true."

Errr....I'm a bit confused with your argument at this point, Sir.

[falcon23]

Originally posted by 68slayr
i want to make it so buffs can't dive bomb.  I hate the dive bombing lancs that drop there whole payload on the pad at Vbase.

 Actually when I do have to dive bomb,which in reality is not that much,as I usually fly 18-20k,is a last ditch effort ot take out a gv or something..maybe ord,ON AN AIRBASE....
 But that will only happen if I have lost 2 drones and am in my last plane..It is not worth dive bombing with all 3..because if someone is on my 6,I am going to be wanting to shoot them down,not take a chance with losing them,and my ord load.

 Again,it is only after releasing my first round of ord that this may happen,and I can honestly say it is very rare..

  And as far as VH's at vehicle bases...those are easy to destroy,I dont see how anyone has to dive-bomb them..

   ANd you know,let's not forget,and I will repeat it...


    What is going on in bombers on the enemys side of the war,is going on with your pilots as well.

                                                      Kevin

[Husky01]

This thread is what needs to go not triple buffs.

[Patches1]

Have you read all of it, Husky01?     Of Course you have! Why would you post otherwise?

[Krusty]

Wolf: Only if the bomber is allowed to up 1/3 as much as the fighter is, because he has 3 drones. Oh, and he's got all guns slaved to the same gunnery spot, as well. So make it only 1 up allowed per 2 hours (30 minutes per sortie minimum). Then he's also got superhuman speed above normal cruising, so he's got added defensive measures (forcing most of the aircraft that attack him into a dead6 position for his slaved-guns to kill more efficiently) on top of that nobody has any idea a bomber is near a target until it hits radar circles, which are 20 miles or less, and the bomber can cover that inside of 4 minutes, drop bombs, and get out the other side of the dar circle inside of 7 minutes...

So if any player takes up a bomber for any reason, and dies for any reason (up to and including their own stupidity) they are not allowed to fly online, offline, in any arena, for a period of 3 hours after that, regardless of the outcome.

How's that? Following your argument this would be perfectly valid, right? No bomber would fly long missions more than once a day. Hell, how about if you lose a drone somebody comes to your house and shoots you dead?

Dude, your rant is illogical to the extreme. It doesn't matter WHO shoots you. In this game you can up anywhere there is an open field. It doesn't matter if 1 guy reups 3x or if 3 separate guys up 1x. The end result is you shoot down 3 attackers before landing your bombers with your name in lights. Do you think bomber pilots (including myself) should be allowed to fly around nearly unstoppable as they are? When I fly a bomber mission, I come into the target, calibrate, line up, drop, maybe defend myself against 1 enemy fighter that's bothered to climb up to me, I turn, leave the target area, and head home.

Most of the time bomber missions are boring as hell. I have no real risk of death. Even when I'm caught on the way out of the target, I more often than not kill all the enemies that trail me, and land safely despite having lost all 4 engines a sector from my landing field.

Yeah, sure, that's realistic. Bombers in this game have it MADE.


P.S. Stoney, your arguments are flawed. I ignore you because you keep harping on having proven something, but IMO you haven't. This isn't the place to get into it.