Author Topic: Explanation please  (Read 5627 times)

Offline SuperDud

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Explanation please
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2007, 03:37:50 PM »
I'd just pwn quack-quack!#!@#~

Plain and simple!
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Offline blackdog68

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Explanation please
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2007, 03:40:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Scca
You were just mad because you lost a 262...


Actually, I could care less about a 262, I can get more, and they were real cheap when I got that one.  I just fly them for kicks as I don't fly any other perked plane.

As far as damage, I had some inconsequential damage (1 cannon, 1 flap) prior to zooming under you to get in front and re-pass from the front at 800-1000 at 350mph.  But your 800+ ping ripped off both elevators.

Granted, it was a very good shot from that distance and at that speed so for that, .s SCCA.  

Those lazer bomber formations are not your fault.  To be historically accurate, though, huge formations of bombers were very ineffective even when outnumbering fighters at more than 3-1.  My grandfather, were he alive, would attest to that being a belly gunner and toggelier in a B-17.

SCCA, Sports Car Club of America?

Offline Scca

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Explanation please
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2007, 03:52:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blackdog68
Actually, I could care less about a 262, I can get more, and they were real cheap when I got that one.  I just fly them for kicks as I don't fly any other perked plane.

As far as damage, I had some inconsequential damage (1 cannon, 1 flap) prior to zooming under you to get in front and re-pass from the front at 800-1000 at 350mph.  But your 800+ ping ripped off both elevators.

Granted, it was a very good shot from that distance and at that speed so for that, .s SCCA.  

Those lazer bomber formations are not your fault.  To be historically accurate, though, huge formations of bombers were very ineffective even when outnumbering fighters at more than 3-1.  My grandfather, were he alive, would attest to that being a belly gunner and toggelier in a B-17.


Thanks, I would consider it lucky.  I was jumping all over the plan trying to keep you in the sweet spot.

Cool, I guess it's that you made it personal by calling out my gameid on 200 that chapped my...well you know...

Quote
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Explanation please
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2007, 04:01:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SuperDud
I'd just pwn quack-quack!#!@#~

Plain and simple!


that's because you start talking to me on vox and with your silken smooth voice, it just puts me in a trance and I'm an easy kill at that point.


ack-ack
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Offline Puck

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Explanation please
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2007, 04:24:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blackdog68
formations of bombers were very ineffective even when outnumbering fighters at more than 3-1.  My grandfather, were he alive, would attest to that being a belly gunner and toggelier in a B-17.


To be historically accurate bombers would have no chance at all of surviving.  A Hurricane 1 could kill one bomber with historically accurate gunning.  No point at all in that, is there?  I'd rather have to worry if I'm diving in on the 9 guy, who uses heat seeking .50s in his aircraft.  Having three is even more fun; there's some serious risk involved in attacking a formation.  If I can't hit the cockpit I aim for wing tips.  

My dad was a nose gunner on 24s.  Ball turret (belly gun) was his alternate position.
//c coad  c coad run  run coad run
main (){char _[]={"S~||(iuv{nkx%K9Y$hzhhd\x0c"},__
,___=1;for(__=___>>___;__<((___<<___<<___<<___<<___
)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
])+(__/((___<<___)+___))-((___&

Offline lambo31

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Explanation please
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2007, 05:14:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
Thank you, it is exactly what I want to know.

So, general advice is to give up initiative and in the most cases top position and  E. You need to slow down to get into mid speeds but you can't zoom so you will lose relative E at the beginning of the fight.

It sounds reasonable but unusual, I have to get accustomed to this idea.
Main problem here is that 99% of MA population are not akaks, and old good lead turn with zoom works great against any planes. In 1% of fights when I understand that it was mistake it's too late ...


Vad, about all you will see me in are Spit9's. From the fight Ack described it's hard to say how I would have handled it. I know I wouldn't have been focused on a HO pass against a 38 from the start. Before we ever merged I would have already started lead turning and chopping throttle. With some one like Ack flying the 38 you have to be full on agressive and keep the pressure on. Going in to the verticle with him, even in a zoom climb,  is death. I would have possibly tried getting him in to a rolling scissors. But like some one stated earlier, with out film it's all speculation.

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Offline jaxxo

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Explanation please
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 05:22:41 PM »
if your in a spit with co e on the 38, try and get more e. He will go vert after merge and repeat that move till your roped or he has gotten around on you...you can try for the head on after merge but his nose mounted cannon gonna rip ya a new one...


keep the fight between 250 and 300 id say... and try to time his virt move to catch him at the beginning of it. You better be a good shot..aim for canopy or the elevator..your only gettin one shot

Offline Vad

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Explanation please
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2007, 06:21:44 PM »
Lambo, you would start flat lead turning? Looks like there is no sense to try vertical turn, and flat turn put you in defence from the beginning. So, you agree with others that Spit v P38 fight should be defensive for Spit from the beginning, don't you? And how can I be agressive if I have abandoned my Co-e position on the first second of the fight, and he is above me now +1000?

Jaxxo, do you agree with that? You suggest to let him go vert and get more alt ?

It sounds strange... It means that P38 totally controls the fight from the beginning, can disengage at any moment , and you can do nothing with that.

I don't argue with you, I have zero experience in P38 and very little in Spit but... but it is against everything I've heard before.

Anyway, thank you, I will experiment with this.

Offline Spatula

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Explanation please
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2007, 06:36:16 PM »
The way i see it is that the spit 9 and P38J are a pretty good match up. On paper, the sustained turn advantage (no flaps) goes to the spit, the climb rate goes to the spit. The speed, zoom climb, slow-speed stability goes to the 38.

But mechanical advantages count for a suprisingly small amount of the factors which determine victory or defeat. Pilot skill by far and away counts the greatest. With closely matched a/c, as in this case, the pilot will determine the outcome 9 times out of 10.

There is no golden rule, no easy set-move which will cause you to win without fail. Each engagement is a complex sequence 3-D spatial permutations with near infinite possibilities. Saying that you should zoom and commence spiral climb at time X in the fight will win it for you is rubbish. Its your ability to read the situation and E, anticipate moves in advance and possible counters and plan to counter the counters etc, how you adapt in an instant, ability to surprise, your mastery of control of your a/c, the ability to track the enemy, your knowledge of a/c abilities at all altitudes and what that means vs theirs, learning your optimum speed for maneuvering; mastering these (or even getting good at them) are more important than focusing on a killer move.

In short, if you come up against a much better pilot, it almost doesnt matter what you or they are flying (unless you can 'tactically reposition'), the outcome is all but pre-determined. The best advice is to take losses in your stride, and learn from them by FILMING ALL YOUR ENGAGEMENTS and study them. Learn from both your victories and losses. Study them both. Work out what happened and why, and how you can employ or avoid those moves in the future. Seriously thats good advice, but you need to be diligent.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 06:55:32 PM by Spatula »
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Offline Vad

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Explanation please
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2007, 06:55:19 PM »
Thank you, Spatula :)

I'm here since 2004, and I'm flying a lot. Of course, I know that it is pilot not plane gives 99% of success. And my hard disk is full of .ahf files.

What was surprised me in this thread is advice to give up your initial Co-E state for the purpose to equalize it later on the low, more favorable speeds. It's new concept for me.  

May be it's just me but I always try to dominate the fight, and I feel very uncomfortable being low and relatively slow.

But once again, I don't argue, I've just never tried this. I will.

Offline Spatula

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Explanation please
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2007, 06:59:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad

What was surprised me in this thread is advice to give up your initial Co-E state for the purpose to equalize it later on the low, more favorable speeds. It's new concept for me.  
 


I often enjoy fighting from the disadvantage more than fighting from the advantage. Sometimes i find it easier to capitalise on my enemies mistakes that they make themselves, than trying to attack from above. Although i would always prefer the later.
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Offline SuperDud

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Explanation please
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2007, 07:18:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
that's because you start talking to me on vox and with your silken smooth voice, it just puts me in a trance and I'm an easy kill at that point.


ack-ack
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Offline Spatula

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Explanation please
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2007, 07:21:14 PM »
Oh, yer, to avoid AHF overload, regularly clear out your films folder and save only the ones which you think could be useful and study those, then delete them if you dont need them anymore. I sort mine out when i log off each time. Saves spending hours trolling through hundreds/thousands of old film files.
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Offline Simaril

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Explanation please
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2007, 07:40:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
Thank you, Spatula :)

I'm here since 2004, and I'm flying a lot. Of course, I know that it is pilot not plane gives 99% of success. And my hard disk is full of .ahf files.

What was surprised me in this thread is advice to give up your initial Co-E state for the purpose to equalize it later on the low, more favorable speeds. It's new concept for me.  

May be it's just me but I always try to dominate the fight, and I feel very uncomfortable being low and relatively slow.

But once again, I don't argue, I've just never tried this. I will.


Vad, I hear what you're saying. I get the same way.

Some of that discomfort makes perfect sense....because to succeed with the low and slow approach takes EXCELLENT gunnery. You will get brief shot windows, and you have to both quickly recognize them, AND be able to convert them into kills very, very quickly.

My gunnery, though improving, can't rise to that challenge.


I really believe there's also an element of personality in flight style. Some guys are very aggressive, and naturally go for the jugular in every sport they take up. They're naturals at turnfighting. On the other hand, when I play I tend to go for positioning and setups....more of a pass it around till you get the easy layup, and less of a thundering charge for the dunk.

So in AH, I naturally go into fights preferring to apply good tactics, trying to make my maneuvers as clean as possible, and hope that I do them well enough to gradually gain the advantage. I pounce mostly when exploiting my opponent's mistakes. It's a conservative style, and I won't force many mistakes by aggressiveness; but it fits me.



The point is this: if you are a natural at exploiting energy advantages, then there's no reason to force yourself into turn fighter mode. Choose a plane that fits your style...and expand your styles as you want to.

If you do sacrifice a lot of E for an angle, though, be sure you convert your shot opportunity. You may not get a second one!
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Offline Dichotomy

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Explanation please
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2007, 07:48:19 PM »
you know Sim you really should have been a teacher.  I just saw myself in yet ANOTHER post of yours
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