Time to help the Me-410

[humble]

Originally posted by moot
Humble, the 410 is out, but just for the sake of discussion:

The numbers don't matter so much.. look at the 152.  Its only chance in pretty much any fight is to exploit its clean airframe and land snapshots.. Saddling up in a 152 at anything but high speed is a point of no return.
I can handle a 38 in the mossie pretty much everytime.

I do think the MK103 will be comparable to the 23mm's.. the latter's higher ROF is only good if you count on having to shoot much.

As for anecdotes of the 410's furballing ineptitude, have you seen some for the 110 as well?  It would contradict the 110 doing as well as it does in AH.

Pilot skill will always be the biggest single factor in any fight. Obviously a plane like a 152 or 262 is pretty much gonna have to E fight unless pilot skill is very different. I think the 410 will be a fun bird in some respects when we do get it....but thoughts of using it in the A-20,mossie,110 manner are a bit far fetched...I'd say its more like "dogfighting" a B-26 (I think A-26 will be similiar as well).

I'm not a real good 38 (or mossie) driver...I never have any problem in a 38 with mossies that arent driven by the few "mossie aces"...same with the 110...most of them are connon fodder.

Again pilot skill is the variable....can you beat any of the recognized 38 drivers in a mossie...would love to see the film (not as "proof" but as a learning tool)...

If we go back to my "arguement" with Viking most of the 38's doing escort duty were actually H models (thats what Acosta was flying). No question that the 38's (including the early J's) had alot of issues and were poorly suited to the mission they drew. I linked part 2 of a good 3 part article on the 38. It explains alot of the problems and lack of proper training/experience....

Happy to fly a few mossie/38 runs anytime you want....certainly a match up I could use work on....

[moot]

P38vsMossie - Definitely ask anytime we're online ..

I just doubt the 410 will be as far below the 110/A20/Mossie's furballing as you seem to be saying...
Looking at the empty weight and power/weight ratio of both the 38 and 410, there's not much difference between the two, nor with the Mossie.  Considering that, and considering a pair of MK103s, then the only unknown left is the 410's FM.
Like I said, the 110 was a "dog" in reality, by all acounts.. and yet look at how that changes in a furballing environment.  I suspect that the 410 in fighting trim would furball at least as well as the Mossie and 110.
Especially if Pyro accepts to model the field mod of removing the rear gunner and his equipment.

The planes will be much more in their element in CT, of that I have no doubt.
I'm arguing things in the MA: before the 152 got its AH2 FM, it was agile enough to equal a SpitfireIX or N1K for two or three rotations - and you didnt need to be Drex to do that.  That was enough for a killshot, which will be enough for the 410 from anywhere inside 1K, if it has MK103s.
After those first few rotations, is another story

[Viking]

The 110G rocks. I'm 41 kills to one death in it so far this tour ... this DAY as a matter of fact. And the one death was to a lucky Lanc gunner. Love that plane.

[Gianlupo]

Originally posted by Widewing
Well, the Me 410 had a lot of support in the forums. However, the rank and file players (not especially knowledgeable of WWII aircraft) will vote for the more familiar aircraft. Inasmuch as the majority of players are Americans, that means the P-39, B-25 and A-26 are going to generate a lot of votes.

I suspect that this will come down to the P-39 and B-25 in the final vote.

My regards,

Widewing

I never thought about it! YAAP incoming!

[humble]

Originally posted by moot
P38vsMossie - Definitely ask anytime we're online ..

I just doubt the 410 will be as far below the 110/A20/Mossie's furballing as you seem to be saying...
Looking at the empty weight and power/weight ratio of both the 38 and 410, there's not much difference between the two, nor with the Mossie.  Considering that, and considering a pair of MK103s, then the only unknown left is the 410's FM.
Like I said, the 110 was a "dog" in reality, by all acounts.. and yet look at how that changes in a furballing environment.  I suspect that the 410 in fighting trim would furball at least as well as the Mossie and 110.
Especially if Pyro accepts to model the field mod of removing the rear gunner and his equipment.

The planes will be much more in their element in CT, of that I have no doubt.
I'm arguing things in the MA: before the 152 got its AH2 FM, it was agile enough to equal a SpitfireIX or N1K for two or three rotations - and you didnt need to be Drex to do that.  That was enough for a killshot, which will be enough for the 410 from anywhere inside 1K, if it has MK103s.
After those first few rotations, is another story

The 110's always been a decent furballer...

The minimum weight the 410 can have is 43lbs/sqf....compared to a "combat weight of about 28 for the 110. The 110 actually out turns an awful lot of birds in AH. The mossie is 39 "loaded"....again much less in AH combat config...even in AH settings with minimum guns and 50% fuel I dont think the 410 can get under 46-47 lbs/sqf

The Ju-88 has similiar wingloading to the 410...I'd ay the 410 will turn about the same as a Ju-88 but obviously have better acceleration and performance in the vertical...

[Viking]

Again with the wrong numbers Humble. I just tested the 110G offline: with no ordnance or extra guns the 110G in AH2 weights 17,500 lbs with 100% fuel. A wing area of 415 feet gives it a wing loading of 40.9 lb/ft. With 25% fuel it weighs 16,000 lbs and has a wing loading of 38.5 lb/ft.

And the Ju88 is very maneuverable in AH if lightly loaded, and several fighter versions of the 88 was used during the war. Mostly night fighters and bomber destroyers.

[Viking]

The Ju 88A-4 as modeled in AH2 weighs 21000 lbs with no bombs and 25% fuel. With a wing area of 515 feet that gives it a wing loading of 40.7 lb/ft.

[Viking]

The Mosquito FB.VI as modeled in AH2 weighs 21,000 lbs with no bombs, 100% fuel and the light ammo load. With a wing area of 454 feet it has a wing loading of 46.2 lb/ft. With 25% fuel it weighs 17,700 lbs and a wing loading of 38,9 lb/ft.

The P-38J/L as modeled in AH2 weighs 17,700 lbs with no ordnance and 100% fuel. With a wing area of 327,5 feet it has a wing loading of 54 lb/ft. With 25% fuel the wing loading is 48,4 lb/ft. The P-38G being the lightest 38 in AH2 as a wing loading of 44,1 lb/ft with 25% fuel and no ord.

As is clearly evident, The Bf 110G, Mosquito, Ju 88A-4, and very likely the Me 410 all have lower wing loading than the lightest possible P-38 in the game.

[morfiend]

Well, it's a sad day indeed,the Me410 is out,too bad. As to it's performance,it was never a fighter,nor designed to be one.A heavy fighter ,well maybe but it's many role is attack.Much like the 110 is was suppose to replace,it found many roles it could play. Myself I would have liked to have had it added to the game,I'd have loved to used the 103 30 mm against buffs.

 Hopefully after CT is released Pyro will get around to making,IMHO 1 of the "SEXIEST" twins produced.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Viking
As is clearly evident, The Bf 110G, Mosquito, Ju 88A-4, and very likely the Me 410 all have lower wing loading than the lightest possible P-38 in the game.

They all have a lower wing loading than the P-38s, and all turn smaller circles than the P-38s down low. Nonetheless, properly flown, the P-38 (any model) will make short work of any of those listed. Especially up high.

My regards,

Widewing

[Viking]

Up high the P-38 gains a considerable advantage. Down low a P-38 only has the vertical to work with, which is difficult to master and dangerous with gunships like the Mossie and 110 gunning for you. Never the less the P-38L has both speed and climb over the 110 and Mossie. Also the P-38 is more forgiving to mistakes. A novice in the 110 or Mossie are more likely to kill themselves rather than an enemy with the flat-spins and abrupt stalling. All things considered the P-38 is the superior fighter, especially in dueling situations where the P-38 is alone with its prey and has time to build up an energy advantage, but it is down to pilot skill and the usual dose of luck. In the hands of a skilled pilot the Mossie and 110G are awesome killing machines in the Arenas. P-38 not so much ... but I am wary of P-38's up in the Ack-Ackosphere.

So far since I returned to the skies of AH2 (two tours ... including the current one) I have yet to become the victim of a P-38, but many have fallen victim to my guns.

[Viking]

Interesting statistics, the Mossie had a 131 to 86 kill/loss ratio over  the P-38L last tour. The 110G fared a little worse with 211 kills vs. 240 losses to the P-38L, probably because the 110 is a popular JaBo ride.

[hubsonfire]

That and it's really easy to kill yourself in a 110.

[Viking]

Yup.

[moot]

Is there a way to check how many kills you've got on a certain plane, in a specific plane?