Author Topic: Uprising in Estonia  (Read 4389 times)

Offline ramzey

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Uprising in Estonia
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2007, 02:35:39 AM »
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The problem here isn't actual Nazis, but what you believe to be nazis, boroda.  Pretty much anything to the right of your viewpoint (far far far left) would constitute Nazis in your mind.  The problem is that they aren't nazis, but just people who are angry at 50 years at repression.

The other problem is you throwing the term "Nazi" around to gain support for what you perceive as a wrong doing.


you are mistaken
There is some changes in estern europe lately. Som right wing parties rise to power and to keep their presence in gov. Ruling parties sign devils deal with ultra right wing nationalists. They admire nazi values, nationalism and fascism.
They are tolerated as part of government cuz they give votes, witch let other less radical wings keep majorities in congress and ruling countries.

They have media, they have slots in government. They need enemy to fight with.
They start "clean up" all gov agencies,  from people who have any past connected to old governments, any communistic past. No matter is that commie security forces or scout organization.

They getting close  same methods as their oppressors, and their grandfathers.
And thats not good, right now they fight with ashes of those who died fighting nazies. Regular peoples who fought for good coses.
Those monuments are symbol of fight against nazies, as well as remind about communists times.
Estonia as only country in the world admire  SS veterans, let them march and show yourself as heroes. All of those legal and under umbrella of their gov.

How would you feel is someone try to remove and destroy all monuments and graves of confederate soldiers?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 02:38:26 AM by ramzey »

Offline mora

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« Reply #76 on: April 29, 2007, 03:03:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
Estonia as only country in the world admire  SS veterans, let them march and show yourself as heroes. All of those legal and under umbrella of their gov.

So there shouldn't be a freedom of expression? Can't the Illinois nazis march in the US anymore? Quite astonishing to hear this from a who person who has illegally immigrated to the USA from another side of the world. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between an individual and the state, again quite astonishing.

An old news link to this subject.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2148732.stm

Offline mora

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« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2007, 03:23:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The other problem is you throwing the term "Nazi" around to gain support for what you perceive as a wrong doing.

It's ironic that the real neonazis are rampant in Russia.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2007, 03:29:05 AM »
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Originally posted by ramzey
Estonia as only country in the world admire  SS veterans, let them march and show yourself as heroes. All of those legal and under umbrella of their gov.


Do not disrespect the soldiers of other countries based on your own assumptions.

Over here in Finland we had a few years ago a honour guard during a Waffen-SS veteran meeting at a cemetary honouring our fallen men of the Waffen-SS.

Who, by the way, did nothing wrong in the war and should not be dishonoured. They fought against the commies like any other finn, but in a different uniform and a frontline. They explicitly wished to fight the commies rather than the western allies.

I don't know much about the estonian SS men, but believe you're talking of the Waffen-SS, which is the armed wing of the SS, fightning at the frontline. Several thousands of estonians fought in german uniform against the commies, who they feared more than the nazis (who weren't nice to the estonians either). It's silly to claim that the estonians would be honouring the nazis, who also were an oppressor.

I see nothing bad in honouring the men who sacrificed their lives to fight for their country, certainly not if they fought with honour.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 03:34:26 AM by Fishu »

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2007, 03:34:09 AM »
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Originally posted by mora
It's ironic that the real neonazis are rampant in Russia.


Yes and I am one of the Evil Russian Skinhead fOscYsts. LOL.

Get real, mate. Your http://www.prokarelia.net, eh??

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2007, 03:38:49 AM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
Get real, mate. Your http://www.prokarelia.net, eh??


Do they promote racism, war or totalitarism? I don't think so. They're a small bunch of people. So who cares? Even the polls have showed that the majority of finns doesn't really care for the issue of Karelia.

In the mean time Russia is falling back into government controlled media and a single party system by dropping out the opposition. Not to forget their aggressive approach to issues like a simple statue made of a stone or metal.

Oh yeah... have they even found any of the supposedly buried red star veterans around the statue? Which was one of your great concerns.

The funniest thing is that you would have no problem with the russian riot-police kicking microphone into a reporters throat during riot, but you found it worth to complain how the estonian police has arrested harmful rioters by force. Which of the two mentalities is closer to the nazis?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 03:53:24 AM by Fishu »

Offline Sixpence

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« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2007, 03:39:33 AM »
Bottom line is it's their country, they don't like the statue.

The problem with Mr. Boroda is he sees this statue as something the Estonians do not. Boroda sees it as a symbol of sacrifice against the oppressive nazis, the Estonians see it as a symbol of years of commie oppression.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline mora

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« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2007, 03:44:20 AM »
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Originally posted by Boroda
Yes and I am one of the Evil Russian Skinhead fOscYsts. LOL.

Get real, mate. Your http://www.prokarelia.net, eh??

It's been all over the world media in the recent years. What an earth does it have to do with prokarelia? What's your problem with them anyway, are they "nazi" too?:rolleyes:

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2007, 03:59:35 AM »
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Originally posted by mora
I actually thought that you might have beeen trolling earlier... But when you start another thread about it you must be serious.

The following is not a personal attack.

You obviously need to get a grip of you life and your mental health. Lay off the booze for starters and seek psychiatric help.


For all we know their media can have gone back to the old days and distorted everything posted for political purposes. Russian word for information is propaganda I believe. :cool:

Funny how the dozens of eyewitness reports from Estonia that are posted to Youtube and news agencies around the world fail to show any of the activity Boroda is describing. There's just looting houligans attacking the police and Estoanian nationals with stones and batons and getting arrested for violently resisting the police force. Just yesterday I saw a mobile phone video of a russian speaking gang attacking an innocent bystander and kicking him to the ground. Another video portrayed a Finnish convenient store being looted by the young anarchists.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2007, 04:11:42 AM »
Whatever side anyone has fought for, their memmorials and graves should be respected.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2007, 04:17:39 AM »
OK.

We'll remember it. We don't leave our dead like that.

Don't you understand that 1/3 of Estonian population, or more - thousands on ethnic Estonians fought on Red side- is enraged.

Tune to Russian TV and you'll see a different picture. Both sides are biased - but Estonian polizeis killing Russian citizens is a little too much for us to tolerate.

Imagine if Russians excavate Finnish or American military cemetary - what will be your reaction?

I am bored of talking to people deaf from propaganda. We just want our dead to be left alone. When you guys insist that a Russian guy was stabbed - look at the pictures I posted... Oh sorry someone deleted 3 pages of my posts here, OK. So I guess it's more serious.

Someone definetly wants to see a re-enaction.

I wonder when Solana and other EU officials will admit that they are inheritors of the nazis. Oh, in fact they already did it. Remember, Europe was "united" two times before, and both times Russians had to deal with first Napoleon and then Hitler. Time for a third one?....

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2007, 04:18:45 AM »
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Get real, mate. Your http://www.prokarelia.net, eh??


Broda sounds more like a Brit stuck in Canada...

Pffft..... swims away.

Mac

Offline mora

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« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2007, 04:21:26 AM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Whatever side anyone has fought for, their memmorials and graves should be respected.

It's not an official grave, it's just hearsay. That's why they are doing an excavation.

You are making it sound like they are bulldozing a cemetary.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2007, 04:27:40 AM »
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Originally posted by AWMac
Broda sounds more like a Brit stuck in Canada...

Pffft..... swims away.

Mac


Sorry I spent 2 months in Australia, and people I met there usually thought I am a Canadian.

About prokarelia: at least Russian Federation respects international borders that were (in Europe) declared finally drawn in 1975 by the Helsinki Declaration. While Finns who genocided non-Finnish population in Soviet Karelia in 1941-44 want a "revenge". Poor poor Finns. I see the same attitude from Estonian cops. This people call themselves "Europeans"...  Human rights my ass. Handcuffing a dieing man to a lamp post... Good they didn't cut his ears off. Or maybe they did?... Good traditional trophy?

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2007, 04:28:20 AM »
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Originally posted by mora
It's not an official grave, it's just hearsay. That's why they are doing an excavation.

You are making it sound like they are bulldozing a cemetary.


I say that memmorials and graves should be respected and you think i make it sound like that?:confused:

By that standard you make it sound like graves and memmorials should be disrespected in general.

I was making a general statement. I mean that both "friendly", nazi, commie and and all other graves in general should be left alone and respected for what they are.