Alabama: Libertarians are terrorists

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Chairboy
It's frustrating that the reprehensible practice of slave ownership is linked inextricably with the discussion of state rights.  That's the 800lb gorilla lurking in the room whenever the subject comes up, the unspoken implication being "So , you support slavery?" in response to "The CSA had some legitimate concerns".

The ONLY reason that the CSA supported States Rights was because they believed that the States had the right to choose whether or not to allow slavery.  As opposed to the central government having that right.  Any other reasoning was a distant second to the choice of slavery.

[Chairboy]

That doesn't change the fact that as defined by our founding fathers, the states originally had more control over their own affairs than they did following the civil war.

This is no more an argument excusing slavery than flying a fighter jet is an advocation of naziism.

[Toad]

It was a power struggle between the Federal Government and the individual state. The Feds won.

In one way, that has been and still is unfortunate.

[lasersailor184]

Originally posted by Toad
It was a power struggle between the Federal Government and the individual state. The Feds won.

In one way, that has been and still is unfortunate.

Totally agreed.  But don't overlook this matter for what it is.  The only reason the South seceded was to maintain slavery.

[bsdaddict]

The civil war wasn't about SLAVERY, it was about SECESSION. Before the war, America was a union of sovereign states. They joined and left by their own will, and the federal government existed for their benefit. After the war, the states existed for the federal government's benefit, and they had no power other than what the fed gave them. Slave importation was already declared illegal in the south before the north won. Lincoln's emancipation proclamation only freed southern slaves to prevent them from joining their owners to fight the northern invaders. Slavery remained legal and practiced in the north until the 13th amendment. Slavery was just the blanked vilification that the winners applied to the losers, just as unfair taxation without representation would have been the blanket vilification applied to the north if the south had won. Slavery was a nationwide issue and the civil war, while speeding up the process, was not fought for the purpose of ending slavery. It was fought for the same reason America's revolutionary war was fought. There was no "good side" or "bad side", there were just Americans that wanted independence, and Americans that wanted mandatory national unity.

[Toad]

Just for you Laser. I know you had some Prof that just made you swoon with his brilliance on the lead up to the Civil War.

Consider that not everyone would agree with him and that there are plenty of brilliant people in that category as well.

We emphasize economics and politics as major factors leading to war. The Republicans who came to power in 1860 supported a mercantilist economic agenda of protectionism, inflation, public works, and big government. High tariffs would have been a boon to manufacturing and mining in the north, but would have been paid largely by those in the export-oriented agriculture economy.

Southern economic interests understood the effects of these policies and decided to leave the union.

[Shuckins]

Toad is right.  The state of South Carolina threatened to secede during the Nullification Crisis of 1832, which had its origins in the passage of the Tariff of Abominations in 1828.  Signed by President John Quincy Adams, this law raised the tariff on imported goods to 62 %, severely impacting the economy of the southern states.  

The British were the major exporters of manufactured goods bought by the Southern states.  At a time when most of Europe was in a recession resulting from the Napoleonic wars, the tax forced the British to retaliate by restricting their buying of cotton.  Thus, the Tariff of Abominations hurt the sale of the South's major raw material crop, but also increased the outflow of money for manufactured goods.

The Southern states nearly went to war over it, seeing it as an attempt to turn their region into an economic colony of the North.  Only a compromise worked out by Henry Clay avoid a civil war.  The tariff remained a point of heated dispute until Lincoln's election in 1860.  

Thus, it is an oversimplification for any historian to state that the Civil War was "only about slavery."

[lazs2]

I would love to see a few states secede from the union and see what kind of government they set up... If it was less intrusive into individuals rights... if it followed the original constitution and bill of rights...

I would move there.

lazs