Dodging the head-on on the second merge

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by CAP1
this is what i just posted asking about........how does one avoid this then sir?

You already have the right idea.  You're timing is probably just off.  Nosing down to dive below him is the best HO avoidance manouver if you're already committed nose-to-nose.  You are diving below his nose, out of his line of sight and even if he tries to follow it with his nose his shot window is exceptionally short.

Start at 1K out and push to near red-out.  If he pushes too he will be fully redded out to make the shot.  As soon as you're clear you can reverse.  You might even be able to begin your reverse as soon as the nose starts dropping.

Note that pushing forward on the stick bleeds more E than pulling back on it so you may want to dive through a little to regain what you lost dependng on your initial E state.

Of course, THE best HO avoidance manouver is to gain seperation before the merge and turn into your opponent rather than flying straight at him.

[CAP1]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
You already have the right idea.  You're timing is probably just off.  Nosing down to dive below him is the best HO avoidance manouver if you're already committed nose-to-nose.  You are diving below his nose, out of his line of sight and even if he tries to follow it with his nose his shot window is exceptionally short.

Start at 1K out and push to near red-out.  If he pushes too he will be fully redded out to make the shot.  As soon as you're clear you can reverse.  You might even be able to begin your reverse as soon as the nose starts dropping.

Note that pushing forward on the stick bleeds more E than pulling back on it so you may want to dive through a little to regain what you lost dependng on your initial E state.

Of course, THE best HO avoidance manouver is to gain seperation before the merge and turn into your opponent rather than flying straight at him.

cool...its good to know that at least i'm doing something right........  when i try to set up to turn into the nmy though.....if they see me, 99% of the time they continusouly(sorry for mispell) turn at me, till i end up either running away...which is hard in the slower planes.......or give up and try to fly at em and hope for the best.......sooner or later i'll learn to read others moves better and survive fights here........

word of advice BTW,,,,,,,,,,,when the BOP's are taking bases......its a REALLY bad idea to dive into their swarm alone:rofl  those guys have their tactics down pat!!!:D

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by SkyRock
blah blah blah puke blah!  What a moron!:rolleyes:

You are still around?

I'd figure a score potato like yourself would be busy milk running targets in the MA during the day while the rest of us work...

[Bodhi]

As for saying that the HO is a sissy tactic, think of two things...

1: in the MA today, chances are you are going to get HO'd if the situation presents itself, so as someone said before, why give the enemy a free ride.  

2: WW2 pilots, many I know, regularly used the tactic.  So, to call it a sissy tactic is like calling them sissies.

Bottomline is, if you don't like the HO, don't present someone that angle.  If you do, I will be prepared to laugh at your whine.  

[Fulmar]

Originally posted by trax1
No offense intended by this it's just my opinion, but why would you want to HO someone?  I've never understood this tactic.  There just isn't any fun in HO'ing someone, it takes almost no skill to do.  It's more fun to get into a real dog fight with someone then just HO them.  When you HO someone your just as likely to get killed or damage your plane and the fight is over within seconds.  I prefer and find it more fun getting into a good dog fight that might last a few minutes.

I generally only go for the HO if its unavoidable or I'm flying a 190A8.  Purely because most HO's end in a collision or something gets shot out (I like to save my bird).  If I'm in the latter, I generally will lose the fight (because everyone is in an uber plane up high, like ponies and temps).  BnZ is the 190a8  only real offensive manuever.  Yes it rolls nicely, but this is mainly used in defensive manuevers because most people know the disadvantages of the 190 and will try to get you in a turn fight.  So I call self-defense if I'm in a 190A8 because I know I can kill just about anything in the sky if I hit with my 30mm cannon.

[Spatula]

Originally posted by Simaril

Can anyone help me understand the difference between a combat turn/ pitchback and a chandelle? Or are they the same thing?

Im pretty sure the combat turn and the pitchback are the same thing. A chandelle is a similar maneuver but it starts and ends at the same alt: its a climbing, then diving turn, as opposed to a climbing turn like the pitchback.

A chandelle is not high yoyo, although they resemble each other in terms of flight paths, a yoyo is a maneuver relative to another aircraft, whereas a chandelle doesnt necessarily need to be. A chandelle is often done with another aircraft in close proximity, but its not *relative* to it, its independent to the other aircraft.

A yoyo is a tactic which employs a chandelle like flight-path, a chandelle is simply just a maneuver.

[B@tfinkV]

originaly posted by red tail -

"Dear Mr. Ice Cube, Epstien will not be able to have a cameo role in your remake, he will be out sick that week.
signed, Epstien's Mom
"


LOL

yeah those who wont go to DA usualy are just admiting that they wouldnt know what to do if they did go.


as a side note, i was using bodhi's statement as an example, not an attack.
have had a alot of fun flying with furball and bodhi on vox channel, amoung others, just a comment on the subject in question.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Simaril
Can anyone help me understand the difference between a combat turn/ pitchback and a chandelle? Or are they the same thing?
 

A pitchback is U shaped.  Basically a banked immelman.  Say you enter at 45 deg bank, you exit reversed heading at 45 degrees inverted.  Like a immelman or split-s, you technically have no roll input during the pitch reversal.  You may also see a heading reversal that starts like an immelman, and ends as a pitchback referred to as a pitchback, but technically it is as i described above.
 

A chandelle is a climbing turn that's 1/2 spiral shaped.  Say you enter at 45 degree bank, you adjust your roll angle slightly throughout the turn and approach reversed heading at roughly 45 degree bank.

[evenhaim]

Originally posted by SkyRock
SkyRock<---slpas Freez for bringing down the skill level of the DA by being there!


Mark

u bastige!

[Murdr]

HO's were part of combat in WWII, but the extent at which they are relied on in AH is on the ridiculous side.   Aside from the heavy US iron vs the lightly armored Japaneese planes, pilots did not intentionally place themselves in the opponents guns for a 'crap shoot' like most AH players do.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Murdr
HO's were part of combat in WWII, but the extent at which they are relied on in AH is on the ridiculous side.   Aside from the heavy US iron vs the lightly armored Japaneese planes, pilots did not intentionally place themselves in the opponents guns for a 'crap shoot' like most AH players do.

Exactly!  Just because you fly a 110 that isn't as "uber" as other planes doesn't mean you have the right to be a flying flak gun, pivoting your nose into everyone else and squeezing off a burst of taters.  Same goes for the Hurri, Niki, Typh, and any other cannon calamity.  I'll be honest, when I first started playing the game over a year ago, I figured "they did it during the War, so it must be OK here too".  However, since then, I've figured out how to be competitive in the game using the stick and my brain instead of beak-to-beak jousting.  I take off now looking to LAND 4 or 5 kills instead of being satisfied with a solo kill, anyway I can get it.  The bottom line is that anyone that takes the shot is basically signifying that they know no other way to get a solid gun solution.  If both of you are in position to take the shot, why not just hold your fire, and continue.  I expect them, plan for them, and most of the time, successfully avoid them.  But, I still hate them.  If you get into a turning/looping fight where both planes are achieving a gun solution simultaneously, try staying cold until either yourself or your opponent gets a decent shot.  You may learn something.  If you don't want to get gang-banged, bring friends.  But don't fly solo into a pack of 4 or 5 bad guys and then try and justify your face-shooting by sanctimoniously exclaiming "I was 1 V 5 the hard way!!!".  That's either a suicide mission or just plain bad S.A.

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Stoney74
But don't fly solo into a pack of 4 or 5 bad guys and then try and justify your face-shooting by sanctimoniously exclaiming "I was 1 V 5 the hard way!!!".  That's either a suicide mission or just plain bad S.A.

... or incredibly fun!

OK, I don't think I've ever gotten out of a 1 on 5 alive but I have gotten out of a 1 on 4 alive and managed to get all of my opponents in 1 on 3's and 1 on 2's... but I practice in 1 on 10's in preperation

Incredibly, sometimes i get waxed in a 1 on 1 faster than in a 1 on 10.

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
... or incredibly fun!

OK, I don't think I've ever gotten out of a 1 on 5 alive but I have gotten out of a 1 on 4 alive and managed to get all of my opponents in 1 on 3's and 1 on 2's... but I practice in 1 on 10's in preperation

Incredibly, sometimes i get waxed in a 1 on 1 faster than in a 1 on 10.

You want to take that challenge to see how well you can do--well, that's one thing.  But, and I don't mean this in an inflamatory way because I typically respect how you conduct yourself, but take it how you will...How many of 'em do you HO to "even the odds"?

[B@tfinkV]

not directed at anyone in particular.

there is a difference between having '3 cons in icon range + you alone' and a '3 on 1 fight'.

typically if i fight in the first situation from an advantage and kill all three, i do not consider that winning a 3 on 1.

likewise if i am at a disadvantage to the 3 enemy, and they all are taking shots at me before i have killed anything and i somehow go on to kill all three, that is what i consider winning a 3 on 1

just thought i'd mention as a general point, dont anyone take it personal like.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Stoney74
You want to take that challenge to see how well you can do--well, that's one thing.  But, and I don't mean this in an inflamatory way because I typically respect how you conduct yourself, but take it how you will...How many of 'em do you HO to "even the odds"?

Stoney:

I know there's a difference of opinion about this, but I think that especially in a multi-con environment its important to realize that there's a difference between a HO and a front quarter deflection shot.

I think of a HO like a joust -- 2 guys coming straight on each other, both hoping to knock the other off first. It's often used by weaker pilots because there's no aiming involved; you just point your nose at the guy flying straight towards you, and hold down the trigger.

Guys who like to fight against multiple cons HAVE to be willing to take front quarter shots, because you won't be able to get behind them all while each one is trying to get behind you. The key difference from a HO is that you are shooting before the opponent has an opportunity to shoot, while you try to prevent the opponent from getting a shot angle. THOSE SHOTS ARE NOT HOs, even though they come from the front side of the target.

Many players who complain about HOs are actually getting killed by nice defelction shots, and the shooters have nothing to be ashamed of IMHO. They are grabbing shots without giving them away, same as a pure 6 or even a 9 o'clock shooter is doing.