Gun crazy Swiss

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Charon. A short one here:
" When you try to compare apples to oranges you have taken yourself out of the ball game."

The quote button at the top of the page would be of good use. That`s what I stated, not Charon.

So it's more compareable to use Detroit vs. Iceland rather than some zone of the USA?

Nope.
Iceland is rather out of the loop at this time......in nearly everything pertaining to the world.

Or a row of blocks in Manchester?

Nope.

UK vs USA not comparible?

Nope. .......and all of the above were explained if you can just figure out who said what.

When some characters on this board start booing at the Euros for trying to hold the arms at bay

I haven`t seen any Euros making any effort to hold arms at bay.

the effort is good and working.

The effort being forced upon them by government is slowly beginning to bite them in the rear...as has already been stated and shown.

So it raises my temper a bit,

For some strange reason it usualy does to those who have already had their freedom of choice taken away by their government.
A variation of the Stockholm syndrome maybe?????

[Angus]

Oh dear, how intelligent.
So I am probably right analyzing your opinion about that nothing in the western world is comparable to the USA, and therefore the USA has the peak in robbery, homicide and people in jail. Furthermore, the rest of the western world needs to slacken their weapon laws and increase the distribution of conceilable arms in order to lower their crime rates. Any attempt to do otherwise is absolutely futile, since the evolution cannot be stopped, and one should never fight what cannot presumably be stopped.
To the last of all things one should try to compare crime rates in the UK to the USA, since the UK has no comparison with mixture of cultures, religions, urban areas and unemployment. Same goes to the rest of "Les Euros"
Agreed?

[john9001]

europeans don't need handguns, they would just hurt themselves.

[Angus]

Ever met any?

[Angus]

And Jackal, at least this one is from you:
"
For some strange reason it usualy does to those who have already had their freedom of choice taken away by their government.
A variation of the Stockholm syndrome maybe?????"

Where does the freedom of choice cross with the freedom of choice?

I would love to have a handgun, but at the same time, I wouldn't trust half the household for it. So, there is a balance somewhere. No Stockholm syndrome (some refer to it as Helsinki syndrome and actually the meaning of it is sideways to this discussion, - hostage getting to like the one who is holding him, - you should have used master and dog perhaps, hehe) , but from my point of view, a question of common sense, based on knowing your turf.
Personally I rather choose to have less arms in the pool, while it means to me that my personal hobby of having some and shooting will suffer for it.
I love to have that choice, and I still have it while you don't

There is one heavy point here, while I am not claiming that gunlaw like ours would cure things in the USA, the feedback is that it's uncompareable and pointless anyway. Well, maybe you should not be the ones to give advise, and instead be glad that there are no Detroits all over Euroland?

[Charon]

To the last of all things one should try to compare crime rates in the UK to the USA, since the UK has no comparison with mixture of cultures, religions, urban areas and unemployment. Same goes to the rest of "Les Euros" Agreed?

Nope, little in common where urbanization and ethnic community patterns were concerned -- but that is changing. There have been plenty of facts provided to support my position, plenty of your personal opinion to support yours.

When gun laws were the same between the US and Britain, why did the US still have a higher level of homicide and firearm homicide?

BTW, that report you fail to read, yet again, clearly states why the US and Europe are different where gangland crime is concerend. It clearly talks about the emergence of US style gangs (thats part II, page 135). "Gangstas or Lager Louts? Working class streeetgangs in Manchester (P153)" is very specific. The gangs in Britain chapter (P154) is particularly focused on the recent rise in US style ethnic gangs and the extreme violence that goes with them.  

But again, you're not arguing with me on these issues. I just base my opinions on other peoples' facts. You can argue if guns laws speed up, slow down or have no effect on the process, but not the process itself.

Charon

[Charon]

instead be glad that there are no Detroits all over Euroland?

Plenty of time for that. Though the strong Islamic flavor that is present with some of these community shifts will bring with it unique issues to the European experience.

Charon

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
So I am probably right analyzing your opinion about that nothing in the western world is comparable to the USA  

If you are refering to the subject at hand, at the present time, that is correct. No way around it.
If you are trying to be flip..........you missed.

Furthermore, the rest of the western world needs to slacken their weapon laws and increase the distribution of conceilable arms in order to lower their crime rates.

I wonder why you would say that. Maybe because it has worked everywhere it has been done?

I would love to have a handgun

Bingo!

No Stockholm syndrome (some refer to it as Helsinki syndrome and actually the meaning of it is sideways to this discussion, - hostage getting to like the one who is holding him

Actualyit is "relate to", but you get the drift , just not the point.
When you are at the will of others and have had your freedom and freedom of choice taken way.....you are the hostage.

I`d like to go back just a bit. What is "your" definition of "assault rifle". Not your governments or mine, but yours.

[lazs2]

angus.. thank you again... I can always count on you to help my side of any debate.. people will start to think you are a shill or made up personality by me tho..

You now claim that the only place in the world where a gun control law has worked to lower homicides is iceland where your strict gun control laws (you don't say which one) has reduced your homicide rate from near zero to...

near zero.

Which is, coincidentaly the number of times gun control laws have stopped homicide and serious crime rates world wide.

lazs

[Angus]

Charon, try to imagine an amalgam of nations able to exist outside the USA without the serious crime rate to compare. It does indeed excist, and I do indeed ponder on why.
France and their pockets of Algerians are one thing for instance. I do wonder what that would boil into if they lived in Dallas and were armed to their teeth, but in France it's mostly violence and riots.

(Actually I went through a "snare" from those in Lille, France, but they were not armed and me was more grizzly )


As for the Gun control law Lazs, I would start with Iceland, and then count onwards down a long list of countries. I am serious, and I admire many nations for what they're doing, such as the British and the Germans. And seriously, our country is full of people who have nothing to do with a gun in their drawer. (no need anyway).
The whole point is to avoid a vicious circle, and I say again that you have no business to mock the effort.

But, alas, USA is so special that it can not be compared with any other western nation regarding stats.

[john9001]

"i have no need for a gun, my government told me so"

[storch]

Originally posted by Angus
Charon, try to imagine an amalgam of nations able to exist outside the USA without the serious crime rate to compare. It does indeed excist, and I do indeed ponder on why.
France and their pockets of Algerians are one thing for instance. I do wonder what that would boil into if they lived in Dallas and were armed to their teeth, but in France it's mostly violence and riots.

(Actually I went through a "snare" from those in Lille, France, but they were not armed and me was more grizzly )


As for the Gun control law Lazs, I would start with Iceland, and then count onwards down a long list of countries. I am serious, and I admire many nations for what they're doing, such as the British and the Germans. And seriously, our country is full of people who have nothing to do with a gun in their drawer. (no need anyway).
The whole point is to avoid a vicious circle, and I say again that you have no business to mock the effort.

But, alas, USA is so special that it can not be compared with any other western nation regarding stats.

when I was in the navy wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyy back in 1977 a group of us were exiting a bar in ville franche on the cote d'azur.  as we exited we were assaulted by a pair of arabian looking miscreants one of them throwing high bruce lee type kicks. one of them kicks hit one of our party alas poor hadji, only to find his leg gripped and pushed to the full reach of the 5'11" assaulted mans arm.  while he was thusly exposed another member of our party punched the assaillant repeatedly in a tender and now exposed area.  his co-assaillant thinking that fleeing was now in order bolted.  the one we captured received a good ol' south florida asswhipping and we took his belongings for good measure.  my point is you guys are whimps therefore your criminals are whimps just not as whimpy as the rest of you.  any one of our highschool chongas can single handedly whip a whole nation of you euros if you allowed her time to redo her make up and get something to eat.

you have no basis from which to compare.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by storch
when I was in the navy wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyy back in 1977 a group of us were exiting a bar in ville franche on the cote d'azur.  as we exited we were assaulted by a pair of arabian looking miscreants one of them throwing high bruce lee type kicks. one of them kicks hit one of our party alas poor hadji, only to find his leg gripped and pushed to the full reach of the 5'11" assaulted mans arm.  while he was thusly exposed another member of our party punched the assaillant repeatedly in a tender and now exposed area.  his co-assaillant thinking that fleeing was now in order bolted.  the one we captured received a good ol' south florida asswhipping and we took his belongings for good measure.  my point is you guys are whimps therefore your criminals are whimps just not as whimpy as the rest of you.  any one of our highschool chongas can single handedly whip a whole nation of you euros if you allowed her time to redo her make up and get something to eat.

you have no basis from which to compare.

Comedy gold.

[Charon]

Charon, try to imagine an amalgam of nations able to exist outside the USA without the serious crime rate to compare. It does indeed excist, and I do indeed ponder on why.

I have actually spent some time in that amalgam of nations. London and  Birkhamstead in the UK; Stuggart; Paris; Tempara, Finland; Amsterdam, Tornoto; Montreal. I have also lived or spent considerable time (months or more) in Chicago, LA, New York, Las Vegas, Old New Orleans -- numerous cities, towns and rural areas. I can honestly say that outside a handful of neighborhoods the streets of Chicago or about any other place in the US are every bit as safe as any of the others in the Western World.

I lived in a so so neighborhood of Chicago (OK but a few blocks away from not so OK) and in five years don't recall hearing a gunshot. Had only one real mugging I am aware of in the immediate area -- no gun involved. There were likely more low order crime I wasn't aware of but no gunplay. On one side of a street would be a housing project and on the other $ million condos -- don't cross the street.

I have walked through all of those US cities at night in not only in the best but "average" to "getting a little nervous - pay attention "neighborhoods without fear of anything but perhaps casual low to non violent crime like you would find in any of the European cities. No more or no less concern. Try to imagine that reality.

As I have said before, the US, its counties, states and cities, towns and suburbs don't have a firearm violence problem per se. Various neighborhoods, mostly in large urban areas, do. This is largely related to streetgang violence. Over 80 percent (well over, as I recall) of both the victims and the people shooting them have past criminal records. If you are not part of that world you are fairly immune from any concern.

Charon

[moot]

France and their pockets of Algerians are one thing for instance. I do wonder what that would boil into if they lived in Dallas and were armed to their teeth, but in France it's mostly violence and riots.

That could never work as a comparison.  The setting and cultures and history (chicken and egg themselves) are completely different.