Gun crazy Swiss

[moot]

Another angle on it, from another thread:

Any word spoken, in class, in the lunchroom, or on the campus, that deviates from the views of another person may start an argument or cause a disturbance. But our Constitution says we must take this risk, and our history says that it is this sort of hazardous freedom--this kind of openness--that is the basis of our national strength and of the independence and vigor of Americans who grow up and live in this relatively permissive, often disputatious, society

[Angus]

Lazs, your text is rather angry, so what are you going to do next, shoot me?
Firstly:

"angus... if your-0-peeans again allowed their people to be armed"

Get it through your thick skull that we are indeed armed. I have 3 guns in the house, while our country somewhat seperates itself with a ban on multi-round conceilable weapons.

"If they did allow the peasants to be armed again"

Call me a peasant and I'll name you Charlotte. On farms in general, even up here there is a firearm. Again, a person can have a weapon. Just need a license for it. In the rest of Europe you may in many a country get your hands on a handgun, but you will need clearance for it.

Here:

"It is more than a debate...you are the enemy. a human rights violater of the worst sort. You feel you have the right to take away your fellows right to defend themselves from tyrants both inside and out."

Human rights? Pardon me, but the whole point of the law, - regarding crime in this regard, is to keep the silly folks from killing and robbing each other. (etc). As far as now, the silly O-peans are doing very much better at this than your neighbours.
And what human rights are you talking about? Oh, the horrible law of not anybody being able to get his hands on a handgun to defend himself? OK, go to Germany, - handgun permission possible. Oh, the humanity, - I just returned from jail from petty drug-running, and I can't buy a gun?

Get this into your head. If you live in Europe, and have a clean record, you can have weapons. Varies with countries and persons involved. The base is gun control, an attempt to keep weapons in the right hands. While the effort is very understandable, the result will never be perfect. However, you have to be brain damaged to come to a conclusion like this being a human violation of the worst sort. I suggest that you go and see the doc immediately.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus

And what human rights are you talking about? Oh, the horrible law of not anybody being able to get his hands on a handgun to defend himself?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment to the Constitution.)

If you live in Europe, and have a clean record, you can have weapons.

Of what type? Under who`s control? Define weapon. ( I know , I know...you are still working on the "assault rifle" thing I asked a couple of times.)
If you don`t have a clean record you are not worried about it anyway. Silly *** laws is not of your interest.

The base is gun control, an attempt to keep weapons in the right hands.

And the left hand ..and pockets, boots, etc, but mostly away from those who would have need of personal protection and of course those pesky types who might attempt to interfere with a totaly out of control and totalitarian government. Those crazy rebelious types are nearly as silly as those wacko guys that wote the constitution of the U.S.

I just returned from jail from petty drug-running, and I can't buy a gun?

If you can`t, then it`s no wonder that you went to jail for petty drug running to begin with. This would mean that you are not too bright in the connection department. Since you would not be at all concerned with any laws that would pertain to the average, law abiding citizen, I don`t see where there would be any problem buying a gun.
Now with the right "gun control " laws in place it would be a complete reversal of the above. Take handgun ownership prohibited areas for instance, a law abiding citizen would be in a real pickle of a decison making when it came to personal freedom to protect himself and family against the aforementioned people.
I do admit though that "hangun prohibited" law areas are a great plus for a certain class of people. Take for instance if you are a pro robber, stickup artist, murder, bank robber, the above mentioned drug dealer or professions of those types. At least some attempt by the government has been made to protect these types from pesky citizens. What kind of world would it be for your average stickup artist or bank robber if the average law abiding citizen is allowed to carry some defense against those in your trade? Sheesh!!

While the effort is very understandable

Yes....if you happen to be in the business of producing total rule over your kingdoms popualtion.

This just in!!!!!!!!!! The professional criminal is not realy into going to great effort to abide by anyone`s laws, no matter how totaly ridiculous they are. A great plus, once again, if you are in that line of work.

[Angus]

LOL, Jackal, you can read but no comprendo.
(I have never been in jail, my record is clean, so I can have guns you see.)
Bottom line of the whole poddle is that those countries with their gunlaws (and another constitution BTW, you speak as the USA had the first parliament in the world), have less weapons in the wrong hands, as well as a lower rate of homicide and armed robberies. No way of getting around that one.
Type of weapon allowed depends, since weapons are basically used for hunting, the hunting gear is most of the stock. Pistols are allowed in the hands of German hunters, - you will understand why if you go boar hunting (I have). So, the "lack of freedom" is perhaps the difference of needing a license and the necessary terms for one. Oh, how bad.
BTW, do you think that a drivers license is a bad thing?

[john9001]

Originally posted by Angus
BTW, do you think that a drivers license is a bad thing?

yes, it is just one more way for the government to have control over it's people.

[Angus]

Hmm. Is your humour to subtle for me or are you just plain nuts?

[john9001]

you don't need a license to operate a car only the skill to do it, a license does not give you the skill. Witness all the unskilled drivers crashing into each other.

A license might mean something if it was as hard to get as a pilots license. But, like all license it is still a way for the govt to raise money and have more control over the people.  The job of all governments is to control people.

[storch]

Originally posted by Angus
BTW, do you think that a drivers license is a bad thing?

licenses are but a way for the government to tax and control the populace.  it's not a good or a bad thing merely a vehicle by which the society has permitted themselves to be governed with.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
LOL, Jackal, you can read but no comprendo.
(I have never been in jail, my record is clean, so I can have guns you see.)

Geeeez Angus..you are not that dense. OK... I will do it simply and apply as needed.
Special Angus addition below.  
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If can`t, then it`s no wonder that went to jail for petty drug running to begin with. This would mean that are not too bright in the connection department. Since would not be at all concerned with any laws that would pertain to the average, law abiding citizen, I don`t see where there would be any problem buying a gun.
Now with the right "gun control " laws in place it would be a complete reversal of the above. Take handgun ownership prohibited areas for instance, a law abiding citizen would be in a real pickle of a decison making when it came to personal freedom to protect himself and family against the aforementioned people.
I do admit though that "handgun prohibited" law areas are a great plus for a certain class of people. Take for instance if you are a pro robber, stickup artist, murder, bank robber, the above mentioned drug dealer or professions of those types. At least some attempt by the government has been made to protect these types from pesky citizens. What kind of world would it be for your average stickup artist or bank robber if the average law abiding citizen is allowed to carry some defense against those in your trade? Sheesh!!
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so I can have guns you see.

Yes, as long as the local Barney Fife doesn`t hold any personal or unwritten prejudice against you...................or .
 ( Judge, jury, prosecuter and overall King in general) It`s sham. It`s been done before to allow discrimination at will against any group, race or person. It`s see through.........if you open your eyes.
Even if you are smooching ole Barney`s backside like a pro, you can still not know the joy of a Colt owner.......................a nd are certainly not allowed to run with any sharp objects. Government knows what is best for you, even if you do not like it.
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Bottom line of the whole poddle is that those countries with their gunlaws  have less weapons in the wrong hands

I would consider the "wrong hands" to be that of the non-lawabiding criminal.
The only given and estimated known on any figures would only include the law abiding ownership numbers. It would be a flat out, glaringly evident lie for any government or agency to declare otherwise. Why? Once again a little hint.......the non-law abiding or criminal population are not affected by the gun laws or any other laws regulating, or in this instance, dictating over the average citizen. No one, no government, agency or or nanny organization has or can even estimate how many guns of any kind or owned by the criminal population. What is a given is that the laws restricting or banning handguns for instance only concerns those who wish to abide by the laws. In other words to take away the one thing that can protect Joe Straightshooter from Joe Idontdolaws when he practices his trade.
This makes for some real neat stuff if your bag is that of the criminal. It also makes things just peachy keen looking on paper in those places when publishing time comes for the gun crime statistics. It`s a real "Look how our gun ban and restriction laws are working" soap box and testament..............unless of course you happen to have anything resembling a thought process of your own.(Governments hate thinkers when it comes to gun bans. they would like to ban the independent thought process)
If you have disarmed the average citizen and taken away his tools of self defense against the criminal element who uses a gun in his trade, then the criminal is almost insured by the government that he will not have to have much wear and tear on his main tool. Certainly you will have lower violent shooting stats...........DUH. It becomes a tool of threat in most cases that is almost guaranteed to be your free ticket to success. Of course we realy wouldn`t want to coincide that with numbers and estimates of monetary value and currency that was lost by the average citizen due to the prohibiting of any kind of defense against such crimes. It would make the government and it`s "we know what`s best for you" laws appear in a bad light. Then those lower shooting and death rates that were put on the books by the violent criminal against the undefended population can be justified and accepted. What`s a few Dads, Moms, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters, Cousins, Friends, etc. , etc. lives lost that could have been prevented if these governments could only trust their general population. Who knows......they might just reach the over the top point in population laws and rules that rule and dictate the people and a revolution or some such sillyness might happen. Wouldn`t that make an otherwise, in total control, government look silly?

No way of getting around that one.

No, not unless that useless thought process keeps getting in the way.

BTW, do you think that a drivers license is a bad thing

I will ponder that one. I will use the time to consider my answer while you come to a final conclusion on the "assault rifle" definition you are researching.

[Angus]

"Yes, as long as the local Barney Fife doesn`t hold any personal or unwritten prejudice against you"
? Explain please. I'm not that dense you see

Anyway dense enough for declaring this:
"Once again a little hint.......the non-law abiding or criminal population are not affected by the gun laws or any other laws regulating"
As absolute rubbish, since criminals in countries with rather stiffer laws (such as up here) are having trouble with arming themselves. There are always some arms around, but not much. I know it is hard to understand for you since your reality is different. Can't help you about that though.
Example:
"pro robber, stickup artist, murder, bank robber,"
Not much of them here I'm afraid. The first armed bank robbery in the country was made by an American who got caught the day after. The last one was made by a junky with an axe, he was caught within 15 minutes.
The murderers usually become ones after a scruffle, so it's a thing like a fist or a knife that usually is the weapon. No gun victim for years now, but oddly the last one was from a handgun. There was this guy running around with a rifle the other day, but since that could be seen from a mile away, he had the SWAT in his driveway before he could say "Amen".
As for the pesky citizens they don't have assault rifles like you can buy on the gunfairs in Oklahoma, nor do they have automatic handguns. But they do have automatic shotguns and non-automatic rifles, as well as automatic light rifles (up to .22 magnum lever operated as well).
Bottom line again, it is much more unprobable that a criminal in Europe is armed than in the USA, and as well it is much more unprobable to find oneself on the receiving end of a bullet, or looking into a barrel.
It's reality.
On the other side, if you break into a house with evil intentions, even mine, (you can walk in, I don't know where the key is anyway), you may just as well find yourself looking into a barrel, muhahahaha.
What is this about an assault rifle anyway? I am looking for a decent sniper rifle to drop them geese at 250 yards or more.

[lazs2]

angus... I guess that yes... if you tried to take the guns I use away from me...  I would have to shoot you.  

If you take handguns away or guns that are useful against tyrants then you are taking away my right to defend myself.   I am saying that your laws take away guns that your citizens could use to defend themselves.

Are you saying that there is not one person in your country who wanted to own a handgun and carry it?  Are you saying that none of these persons were ever in a situation where if they had had a handgun they could have prevented harm to themselves or others?

You are lucky to have such a small country with a tiny population... many parts of the US have similar makeups and crime rates but.. the difference is... we have much more freedom in owning firearms.

So.. my question remains... how are you safer?   what gun law was passed in your country that caused a drop in homicide and serious crime?

simply put.. so even you can understand... What was the law....what was the homicide and serious crime rate before the law and what was the rate after the law was passed?

Why should you have a gun and not someone living in a city?  Who is smart enough or psychic enough to decide who needs a firearm and who does not?

Are you not playing god when you decide that a person does or doesn't need to defend his life or property or those of his fellows?  Who gave you that right?   It is immoral.   Our founding fathers knew that as did britans but... in england they were too wussy or not smart enough about it and when they recognized the right to be armed they made it useless by making it a privlidge passed out by government instead of a right of the people.

we are just one of the few countries who have done it right in our constitution.

I do not know how the swiss have it spelled out in theirs.

lazs

[Angus]

Have you been to Switzerland? Man, they're a bit stiff and promptly swept me on the way in. But I already said that.
Murders are few, however mostly with firearms.  They are still lower than in my country. Which brings me to a point you are not expecting, and yet maybe?
Our guncrime is practically at 0%. Armed assaults and robberies are also very very low, and mostly something as a spur-of-the-moment thing with a weapon out of the kitchen drawer. Anyway, guncrime = 0%.
So, how about letting a slack on the gun culture? Well, IMHO it cannot improve things, it simply doesn't get any better than nil. And there is many a fool around here that should not carry a gun.
I would love to have a handgun., and so would many of my gun-interested friends. We evaluate that to the possibility of handguns getting common in circulation, and we all (so far) agree upon that we'd rather give it up.
So, I promptly sacrifice my "freedom" of having a handgun to the FREEDOM of not having to worry about people unexpectedly poking a gun in my face, or shooting me.

[john9001]

what angus is saying.

Angus,"there are no criminals in iceland, we are all happy people,we don't need handguns, america should be like iceland"

[Toad]

I really don't care how they handle gun control in Iceland. It's none of my business, so there's no need for me to comment either way.

I hope they will extend the same courtesy to the USA.

[Angus]

Well same to Europe, so I wish some on this thread would stop booing on them for trying to keep less blood running.

And twisted John:
"what angus is saying.

Angus,"there are no criminals in iceland, we are all happy people,we don't need handguns, america should be like iceland""

Actually we measure as the happiest population in the world, but I would take that with a grain of salt.
However, if you want a place where you're NOT likely to be shot, you should come over here