Can't fix stupid

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Is your name Rino ? ... didn't think so ... go back to your chigga flickin' ... it's what you know best.

 

I have to admit.....I am Da Masta Chigga Flicka.

[Shuffler]

Originally posted by The Fugitive
I don't know what the "best move" is, but when I get a check 6 I try to help..... well first I get over the shock of getting a "check 6"  

A rolling scissors isn't going to help the friendly save my butt, so I would do my best to drag the enemy for the friendly. This includes calling out which way I'm turning (so the friendly can pull lead before the enemy even has started his turn), which way Im going to have to do a break turn and so on. Anything I can do to help clear my butt is a plus.

I think this is what Rino was talking about. He gave a check 6 and instead of getting some help in setting up the enemy, the guy just went into defencive mode. While it may help him to make it tough for the enemy to get a shot, it makes it even tougher for someone to save him.

On the other hand, some people just don't want to be saved, some love fighting at a disadvantage, so maybe that was it.

I have to agree all together on this one. Sometimes I drag for the friendly... sometimes I have an issue that may mean I have to react sooner. But I always appreciate a check 6 even if I die.....

[WaRLoCkL]

This is for Rino, you are right u cant cure stupid. If u dont think a scissors would work, tell u what, meet me somewhere and I will let u get on my six, and I garentee u that befor u know it I will be behind u sending u back to the tower the quick way.

Trying to argue against some of the best aces in the game is not going to help u much. You are right on one hand, scissors is not the best way to get a clear, but most good piliots arnt trying to clear, there setting u up for demise.

I think what u really were trying to do was get those guys to stay strait so u could get the kill off their six, and probly go mad when u couldnt hang in their hard break turn.

Plane and simple, if a bogey is on your six and faster than u, there is no real alternative but a hard G break turn.

Learn some ACM befor u get in here on the forum and talk about someone elses manuvers please.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Learn some ACM befor u get in here on the forum and talk about someone elses manuvers please.

Heh.  YEAH, RINO, YOU NOOB, GO LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT ACM!

- oldman

[Max]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
This is for Rino,  
Learn some ACM befor u get in here on the forum and talk about someone elses manuvers please.

That's funny. For one, Rino (Phan) is older than dirt and he was prolly flyen cartton planes when you were in diapers

[WaRLoCkL]

However in your defense, Scissors is not the most affective move if you have a E advantage, it is actually the worst manuver u can do.

I will retract what i said earlier, in the fact that I was not there to see what happend.

But everyone handles their problems differently. I myself like to let the guy on my six get confident and close in, befor I send him back to the tower wondering what the heck happend to him. If done right u can make it happen so fast the guy wont even think it was the guy he was chasing that shot him down.

However if there is someone on the bogey and I trust their skill leval, I will rope him up or a slow lead turn to set him up for the friendly.

Not everyone has the same skill leval that the pros do. We cant expect everyone to fly like they know what they are doing. Best u can do is help them out. Cover their six so maybe they stay alive long enuf and get lucky enuf to end up saving your butt once.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
This is for Rino, you are right u cant cure stupid. If u dont think a scissors would work, tell u what, meet me somewhere and I will let u get on my six, and I garentee u that befor u know it I will be behind u sending u back to the tower the quick way.

Trying to argue against some of the best aces in the game is not going to help u much. You are right on one hand, scissors is not the best way to get a clear, but most good piliots arnt trying to clear, there setting u up for demise.

I think what u really were trying to do was get those guys to stay strait so u could get the kill off their six, and probly go mad when u couldnt hang in their hard break turn.

Plane and simple, if a bogey is on your six and faster than u, there is no real alternative but a hard G break turn.

Learn some ACM befor u get in here on the forum and talk about someone elses manuvers please.

Phan would flat out pwn you.   You'd be in the tower doing the dishes before you could say Palmolive.

[WaRLoCkL]

I never said Rino hasnt been playing the game for a long time. But if u dont think a scissor would work in that situation then you evidently do not know about that particular ACM and what it was designed to do.

The key to a scissor is getting slower than your enemy and move in behind him. If your enemy is already faster than u it makes it that much better.

But I also stated in Rinos defense, I was not there for the situation. If there were freindlys set up to kill him then the guy should have stayed strait and narrow and janked a little if the con was over 600 out, however inside of that, and its danger zone and u gotta do what u gotta do.

[Vudak]

Originally posted by WaRLoCkL

I will retract what i said earlier, in the fact that I was not there to see what happend.

Or, in this case, comprehending what Phan was saying in the first place

[Ghastly]

Originally posted by hubsonfire
See Rule #4

Huh?  Unless you meant that in complete sarcasm, it makes no sense.  If someone is able to clear your six in the first place, it means that they have to have closure - be faster than you (and your bandit).  If you pull a max-g maneuver, your bandit will pull for a guns solution on you 99.9% of the time, and your would-be benefactor either:

a) blacks out trying to get guns on your now violently maneuvering bandit who is attempting to follow your violent maneuvers...

-or-

b) overshoots without a shot opportunity.

Does this mean you should never maneuver if someone might be able to clear you?  No - like so much else in combat flight simming, it's a case of SA - determining what the threat level is, and whether or not you have the luxury of waiting for - and some  trust in - the other guy to clear you, and factoring out whether you have a greater chance of survival if you drag or maneuver evasively.

If I'm under threat and hoping for a clear, I usually use a barrel roll evasive, or at times - and for a very short duration - a skid, rather than a scissors.   And announce my defensive manuever on radio as I start it.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Ghastly
Huh?  Unless you meant that in complete sarcasm,

I can asure you.  Hub would never do that!

[Max]

Originally posted by Vudak
Or, in this case, comprehending what Phan was saying in the first place

Easy there Pilgrim, Rino is a very sensitive fella

[WaRLoCkL]

No I never said he was right. A scissor CAN and WILL work and is about the Only option with a faster bogey.

However there are all kinds of variables.

The friendly plane
The bogeys plane.
Speed of the planes.
How many were on him.

But I see everyday where there are 8 guys chasing a bogey on 1 friendly trying to tell him what to do to make it easy for them. and the friendly ends up dying cause the 8 are fighting so hard to kill him. Unless I have been in the air with u befor or I am seriously in trouble I will not listen to what someone else tells me to do, most just want to set it up so they get a easy kill and not care if u life threw it.

And befor u start hammering my skill leval. I may not have been on aces high as long as some of u. But I come all the way from air warrior. I have experience and I garentee u that I would hold my own if not better against most. U can balive that if I dont win it wont be easy for u or quick. I do listen to advice from others. But I also know when I should do what Im told and do what I need to do. I would be more than happy to duel anyone that wants to start bashing on my skill. I never said Rino was skilless, but that comment about scissors not working is false. Sure if he flys a p38 it wont. but for a spit, hurricane, 205, f4f,f6f scissors is a great manuver at any time.

[WaRLoCkL]

Ghastly put it way better than I could have, its all variables. I wasnt trying to bash Rino. I probly came off to strong on the first post. But maybe Rino should have posted what the guy could have done, instead of bashing the manuver he did do and making it out to be a usless manuver. I use scissors in my CORSAIR and I can make it work for me against most planes, especally those little pesky Las;)

[dedalos]

Some how the guy on the other plane always knows your situation better.  I get plenty of advice all the time.  People asking me to drag some one when I am doing 200 in a P40, etc.  They just want the easy kill.
So, someone has an argument about what the best move was for someone else.  he just looks at it from his point of view and not from the guy who got the 6 call.  Did the guy just break after the 6 without looking?  Was he seting the bad guy up? was he in a 190 or a spitV?  It does not matter.  The guy in the other plane knows better than him.  Then argues about it and when people don't agree with him, he comes in here and calls them stupid.  

Then, we find out that he has been flying for a while so everyone backs off and
does not call the post for what it is.  Whaaaa, I told him what to do but he would not listen and then he talked back to me, whaaaaaa.  I know of many people that have been flying for years but are still clueless.  NOt saing that the poster is.  Just saing that number of years in the game dont mean anything.

In anycase, he is right. You cannot fix stupid