Well, my oldest blew it

[Reschke]

Rip just another parent with a very similar situation on my end. I would say bounce him out of the trip altogether. I did the same thing with my 11 year old son two nights ago for a completely different reason.

On Saturday he went to a friends house and was able to take his airsoft pistol to do some shooting at targets in their basement garage. Not a problem on my end or his friends parents end. My wife and I swing by after dinner to bring him home and when we get home after some friendly banter a comment was made by him of "Be glad this gun isn't loaded!" after I told him to go brush his teeth and go to bed. Well I told him to take the gun outside and put it in the trash; which he did; and that he had just lost his hunting privileges for the family hunt that happens on the weekend after Thanksgiving. He understood and then the next morning asked about going ahead and taking his hunter safety course which he doesn't have to take here until he is much older. So his friend from the previous night comes over later in the day to play and makes a comment about the airsoft pistol which I said was in the trash due to an inappropriate comment by my son and it was not to be gotten out or some very serious problems would come from it. So they play and then later as my wife is pulling into their driveway taking him home my youngest son pipes up and says that other boy had the pistol in his shorts. So my wife stops the vehicle and asked him about it. Initially he lied and then immediately retracted his comment about having the gun. Both of them lost the gun a second time only now she ran over it in the Yukon XL and then tossed the pieces into the trash at the friends house.

My son was grounded for two weeks for pulling the gun out of the trash and for allowing himself to make a dumb decision and being influenced by another kid saying that he wouldn't get caught. SO no television, xbox, friend, etc... He is not allowed to take the hunter safety course until after deer season is over; which ends on January 31st. He may not have that friend over until I say it is ok and only then after I get a written apology from that boy; who up until now has never been the cause of any bad behavior. He also lost all his Star Wars Battlefront games and any other xbox game that has a gun in it (this one was from his mother). Lastly but certainly not least the old thick, wide leather belt got a great workout on Sunday evening.

The only reason I am not taking my youngest one with me is because he is only 4 1/2 and will not be quiet or sit still in the woods.

[AquaShrimp]

Get him checked for ADD.  There are several different kinds.  All it takes is one pill a day and you turn into a studying machine for 8 hours.

[Golfer]

Rip he sounds a lot like me when I was in high school (and I'm sure more can relate) which hopefully means he's pretty much normal.

I had a great freshman and sophomore year with good grades.  Junior year came rolling around and school wasn't holding my interests.  I could actually learn more outside of school, I was heavy into golf and most of all...girls.  It was hardest on my parents, my mother most of all being a teacher herself.  My "nemesis" course was Algebra 2.  Not because I didn't understand the material, but because the "system" my schools and most have use homework as the bulk of your grades.  It would actually be impossible to pass the course no matter what scores you received on your tests and exams for the quarter due to the heavy weighting of homework.  I rarely did mine.  I understood the material and I was even one of the most sought after tutors for math, AP Chemistry and AP History (Advanced Placement).  In fact I helped our class valedictorian over a hurdle he was having in AP Chem, and I graduated with a 2-point-something GPA right about the middle of the class in rank.

Why do I say all of this?  Because if he actually understands the material in class (and his test scores will reflect this) then it's going to be very difficult to motivate him to sit down and do the same thing 40 times over while he's at home.  It was impossible ot motivate me.  Money didn't buy grades (my folks put cash up for each A I brought home) since I was always a C student overall.  My point is that if his grades are slumping because of the way the homework is weighted vs. the test scores then it's not as bad as it might seem.  It doesn't have to do with ADD, he doesn't need medication and from everything you've posted about him here he's an all-american kid.  He should be chasing girls, playing football, spending time in the woods with his father as well as learning in school.

If he "gets it" with his subjects then the best way for you to get him to do it is to challenge him to do it.  Dare him.  Tell him he can't do it.  Some of the hardest things in my life to complete are the easiest to do.  This is because I know I can do them and there's no challenge or motivation to actually get them done.  If I didn't turn in my homework assignment, so what?  Was the world going to stop spinning...nope!

As a parent you know the surest way to get your kid to not do something is to tell them to do it.  Flip it around.  The best way to get him to do his homework is because he can't.  Don't yell at him, don't get mad at him, don't whip him with a belt (that one just made me more motivated to not do it!) the easiest way is to tell him you don't think he can do it.

Take him on the hunting trip.  Family time and father/son time is more important than anything he'll encounter in his life.  School and work included for both your family and his.  While you're there it's a good time to talk about how well he isn't doing in school, how disappointed you are (not angry...no matter how mad you might be!) and just how it seems to you he can't hack it.  Challenge the kid and he just might surprise you.


No matter what you do to try and motivate him...

Let him take a gun, do the trip as you planned and even take the youngest along as well.  Enjoy the trip!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
That was there as well. I grabbed him by the shirt and stuffed his face into mine and used my share of 4 letter words...it doesn't do any good though. That tactic has never been successful with him. He's a hard-headed one.

I really disappointed. I spend a helluva lot of my time working with him one-on-one with homework...the minute I let him go on his own, and monitor his own work and progress, this crap happens.

Well then give him the same choice I gave both of mine.

"You can either go to college, or join the Marines. But either way your going to learn how to do something Either got o college and be formally educated. or the Marines and learn how to kill because even in teh Marines. Unless yoru willing to hit the books. Thats all they are going to teach you how to do...Your call"

I also offer the carrot.
"bring me the grades and I let you do almost anything within reason you want."

As a result of all this I have a son in Rutgers who I havent had to tell to do his homework since the 5th grade and an 11 year old daughter who since given that choice has had her grades go from c's to A's & B's  and who is allowed to got o bed at 11:00 as opposed to 9:00.

Course it probably helps that when I get pissed off I loo like a total maniac LOL

[JB88]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Take him Rip, find something else to use as punishment. These times you spend with your kids are precious. You never know what tomorrow brings, take him, spend time together. Don't punish yourself

he can't unless the kid follows through and makes the grade or at the very least makes an extreme effort.

backing down does more harm than sticking to the punishment...as hard as it may be for rip.

actions have consequences...so many kids act like total idiots without the benefit of firm consequences.

just my 02.

[SaburoS]

^ ^ ^ What he said.

Rip, you can't back down unless you were way out of line. Your son knows between right and wrong. So do you.
It's better to teach him these life lessons early rather than having him find out the hard way later on that could cost him a lot more.
Changing your mind only teaches your kids that you can be wishy-washy.
RESPECT is what you gain or lose depending on what you do.
He can make the NEXT hunting trip.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Rip, stick to it. The WORST thing you can do is back down now. I know it isn't what you WANT to do. IF the kid makes a recovery before school is out for the weekend, then reward him with the trip. If he doesn't, he made his decision and he decided what was important to him.

And FiLtH is absolutely right. I did the same thing he did. I aced the tests and stuff, and slacked on the homework. I'm 44 and still have a self discipline problem. And it DOES effect my business, just like FiLtH was saying. If you want him to be self reliant, self sufficient, and self motivated, you're doing what MUST be done. As bad as I was in school, I wish I'd been able to get the chance to do what I wanted in the military, because I could use the life lessons I'd have learned.

I love my son, and I love doing things with him, I wish I could do more with him. But he has the same problems I had, and I REFUSE to let him do what I did. I WILL NOT set him up for the struggles I've had. I have to do what you've done. I'll stop sports, I'll stop games, I'll even stop trips, including racing and hunting, that he and I both dearly love, all just to stop him from going through what I do.

It's a habit you never really break if you carry it through school into adulthood and get away with it. I want him to have more self discipline, I want him to finish college, and I want him to succeed easier than I have. I do NOT want him to be struggling to really succeed at 40 like I have and still am. I could be so much further along than I am, and have so much more. I could do so much more, and give so much more. All for some stupid habits I failed to break.

[moot]

No pills.

[rogwar]

Rip,

Getting away like that is an important bonding time. The opportunity will be gone forever come Sunday.

Are there other things/priveledges you can take away instead? or a group of things?

Assuming he goes, rather than chew on him during the outing, maybe take that time to have a heart to heart. Don't rag on him but just have a man to man talk just once. Tell him the rest is up to him.

[Ripsnort]

It's been interesting following this thread today. We certainly all have our opinions on how to rear children!  The commonality is that everyone that has posted in this thread must have experienced something similar, or has had something similar in their life happen that they can relate to!

Just a follow up:

I asked him to contact the teacher (left him a note this AM) and see what he can do to get that grade up by Wed (It's early in the 2nd quarter, so an F can really impact a early grade) and discuss with his teacher what he can do to get the grade up. I then emailed the teacher and explained to her the situation...and that I fully supported any decision she made. I was willing to enforce the "clipped wings" rule but if there was a chance, perhaps there was a way he could rectify the situation.  I asked that she not discuss the email exchange that I'd had with her, with my son, a wish she honored.

So, he has to study tonight, (willing, able, ready) and complete the test on the section he got a 0 on from last Thursday. Yeah, its a 2nd chance, but how often do we get those in life? Not often.  And we'll have alittle chat about 2nd chances in life, and how rare they are...on our drive over to Eastern Washington on Friday, if he passes tomorrow. It all depends how well he studies tonight, and how he does tomorrow when tested on this section.

Cheers!

[JB88]

good luck kid.

[LEADPIG]

If there were more parents like you in the world today. There would be less:

1.Thievery

2.Dishonesty

3. Lack of respect for selfs and others

4. Less superficiality

5. less handsomehunkes

6. Basically less Paris Hilton types.

So basically just more all around nice decent people.

I don't know about ya'll but there seems to be an abundance of kids who expect things from others for nothing. Less manners, respect, and such. I come from a generation of if you act wrong you'd go tear a switch off a tree and be whipped with it. I'm 29 and i notice a lot of the girls i meet today are some of the most snot nosed, pathetic, expecting little brats i've ever seen.

I've come to the conclusion that it's because most parents today are dishwrags. They want to be ther're kids friend which ultimately ends up hurting everybody in the end when i have to meet there ******* kids. Kids today idolize the worst people, the entertainers and such. I worshipped mom and dad because they were just all around nice people, who'd set me straight when needed. Now i was about the straightest kid around. No problems or coersions needed. Hence i've always got along better with older people, than my peers.

But you my friend or a wonderful example to parents everywhere.

[LEADPIG]

On another note remember the words of Harry Truman. "The buck stops here".  And if you are the parent it does. Make a decision and stick with it. You're decision to let him try to redeem himself is a great idea as it shows that you are not an unfair man, and it really is his own fault and he can save it by his own actions. However on the other hand remember that just because you are the parent don't forget that you are not perfect. On all actions try to be fair. Or else your son will just think your a ******* and won't act fairly himself if you don't. All in all parents are some the most observed and emulated people on earth and it must be hard to have a little person hinging on your every action. Just my thoughts as i am not a parent, but i feel you don't have to be anybody particularly special to know something. You just have to know it, thats all.

[M36]

One of the problems with having computerized grades is that parents look at it alot, to see what the grades are for their child and become so wrapped up in what the grade is. Pretty soon, the parents and childs life revolves around what the stupid computer is showing, and parents rule accordingly. Which in a sense isnt fair to the child because grades can be late and not reflect current work. My sons school was usually a week or two behind and although the computer showed a bad grade, in reality his grade was good because current work had not been entered. In this case, you just happened to check and found the 61%. Had you checked after the hunt you would have found the same thing, or a slightly higher grade that may not have bothered you. He still had school and could have got a better grade on an assignment to bring it up. You are doing everything you can possibly do to justify taking your son on this trip, and you know good and well that the last thing you want to do is leave him at home. So, he studies very hard tonight and puts forth an honest effort to get his grade up, and you know he studied hard for the test. What happens if he doesnt score high enough to get out of the "F" or if he winds up with a 69% or high "F"?. Where do you draw the line? Does he not go or does he get to go because he put forth the effort. If he doesnt go does he get the message that all his hard work will be unrewarded in the future?

Your sons carrot is growing bigger and bigger as the hunt gets closer.  You may have an even tougher choice ahead of you. Scoring high on the test, getting a good grade makes it all much easier and lets you off the hook to make a choice. Yeah, it the easy way out.

Regardless of the outcome, and the opinions of myself and others, you will make the right decision.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by M36
One of the problems with having computerized grades is that parents look at it alot, to see what the grades are for their child and become so wrapped up in what the grade is. Pretty soon, the parents and childs life revolves around what the stupid computer is showing, and parents rule accordingly. Which in a sense isnt fair to the child because grades can be late and not reflect current work. My sons school was usually a week or two behind and although the computer showed a bad grade, in reality his grade was good because current work had not been entered. In this case, you just happened to check and found the 61%. Had you checked after the hunt you would have found the same thing, or a slightly higher grade that may not have bothered you.  

Wrong. It's updated on a *DAILY basis, with a date. It's a requirement in this school district by the principal.

*All his teachers update on a daily basis when there is content to report...with exception of Physical Education (and yes, they get graded on that too...)