Author Topic: Well, my oldest blew it  (Read 2274 times)

Offline Charge

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2007, 03:04:08 PM »
"I have high expectations"

What does that mean "you have high expectations"?

It's not your life but theirs. You can only give them tools to deal with it, not to live it. :huh

Love your kids and give them support and advice with what ever they want to do with their lives.

-C+
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline eskimo2

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2007, 03:10:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
FYI, he had his retake. Scored the highest possible for a re-take (80%) which brought his overall grade up.  Due to his studying last night, he totally forgot about a science paper that was due and got an F on it today.  It lowered his overall grade down in Science. I just got off the phone with him after berating him up and down. :mad:

I'm at wits end. :(

It's time to create a daily status sheet that  he will be accountable to report to me each night before bed. Then I'm going to have him pull his grades off the web on a daily basis and report the delta to me.  

He'll learn, one way or another, he'll learn.


That’s a good plan.  You may want to shift the check to right around dinner time, however, so if something is not done he has time to work on it.

Offline Ripsnort

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2007, 03:12:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
"I have high expectations"

What does that mean "you have high expectations"?

It's not your life but theirs. You can only give them tools to deal with it, not to live it. :huh

Love your kids and give them support and advice with what ever they want to do with their lives.

-C+

Well, you have to analyze the whole paragraph, not a single statement. I will take the time to elaborate further.

Time + Effort=High expectations.

Alot of my effort and time keeping him out of the D and F territory since 4th grade. This year I've not been the "hovering" parent. In my mind, it's a "Sink or Swim" year (first year of middle school)  Manage your own time, pay the consequences if you don't manage.

I've never met a parent that had low expectations of their child, nor told them "I just expect you to do average".  Personally speaking, C's are okay by me.  I won't tell him that though, I expect him to do much better because I know what he's capable of doing.  The problem is his organization and time management.  He's a smart kid, with a ton of procrastination.  Just the opposite of me...not so smart, but I don't procrastinate.  "Get 'er done" is my theme.

Offline Guppy35

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2007, 03:13:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
The F was in a daily homework assignment (currently this thing called a "Moon Calendar" where they just look up what phase the moon is in, and color a moon calendar chart)  This is a roll up to many assignments that account for 40% of the overall Science grade.  I probably won't hold him back from the trip over this, but I'm certainly going to talk about how small, easy tasks are just as important as larger assignments.

About online grades...I can't imagine waiting 2.5 months only to see a kid is failing a class, or finding out during teacher conferences that they are failing. The instant online grades allows to correct for behavior before bad habits take over.  

The corrective behavior plan (CBP--I love acronyms!) I will implement beginning today will be a daily report and daily homework status that he'll begin reporting to me.  Of course, there will be take-aways for negative values (grades going down, or assignments not turned in) however there will be incentives for improvement too.  I've already created a spread sheet that he'll complete each day for his status reporting.

I'm going to try to manage this like a failing project. I've revived a few failing projects, and  perhaps its time for alittle "Daddy Project Management".

:lol


Just a thought on it Rip, and this is from someone who struggled with his oldest son and school right up through his graduation.  There was never any question of my son's smarts.  But he was never good at school.  He just didn't learn well that way and this is a kid who was reading before he started school, could draw complex machines and aircraft from an early age etc.  But he'd forget work, get the work done and forget to turn it in or what have you.

I rode him mercilessly to the point we could barely stand each other.  It didn't change.  I work with kids for a living.  My boss asked me after I'd grumbled about it one day, "are his grades for you or for him?"

The question caught me off guard.  He then asked me how my relationship with my son was at that point.  I told him that I got tense as soon as I knew he was coming home from school, and that my son was barely talking to me at that point and looking a bit like a dog who'd been kicked too many times.

He then asked me which was more important, the relationship or my son getting the grades I wanted.  I had to take a long hard look at that and in the end the relationship was far more important.  It wasn't as if Drew was a defiant, disprespectful kid breaking rules.  He was anything but that and he and I were always close until I'd decided that i was going to make him get good grades.  

In the end he graduated, well towards the bottom of his class, but he and I were close again and he always talked to my wife and I about things.  He worked full time after High School and on his own decided to go to community college.  He was out on his own finally and was going to make it.

Then he was killed in a car wreck and I lost him at 21.

I know that slants my thinking so keep it in mind.  But I have no regrets about stopping on the hammering him about school.  I never quit having expectations of what kind of man he would become and in the end he did not disappoint me in that regard.  It was his life and his grades.  They weren't my grades.

I'd give my left arm for one more hunting trip with him.  That bond you create with times like that will be far more important as he gets older then anything grades will do.  

Hope that makes sense.
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters

Offline eskimo2

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2007, 03:29:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
I agree culero, but was mentioning that because it is already required by the NCLB.  Granted, the No Child Left Behind Act had good intentions, but you would not believe what it requires of teachers.  By reading it, one might even get the idea that it is the teachers fault that ripsnorts son skipped out on his assignment!:aok


True.

At my school teachers are required to write homework assignments on the board and students copy them into assignment books.  We also have to post assignments daily online.  Online grades are posted by each teacher at least once a week.  Work for absent students is sent to the office daily.  
I rarely give homework assignments, though.  They get plenty in their other classes and I can’t expect all students to have compatible PCs, and programs let alone the ability to copy my intranet guides, examples and rubrics onto flash drives.  I have my students in grades 2 and up turn in files electronically.  My “graded” folder for this quarter contains over 1,400 files already and we are only 3.4 weeks into the quarter.  I probably also have over 1,000 “observation” grades on top of that…  There’s a glimpse into just one aspect of my job…

Offline JB88

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2007, 03:53:11 PM »
RIP.

growing up i had the same problem.  in my case, i was ADD central.  a very smart kid, but i had a real difficulty managing assignments or concentrating long enough to complete them.  it caused me immeasurable amounts of heartache.  it wasn't that i didn't want to...it was because i didn't know how.
i called it the wall.  it was this thing that i could never figure out how to get over or around when i was younger.

if that is where the problem lies i feel for him...but feeling for him won't solve the problem.  he has to learn how to overcome it...and he has to eventually learn it for himself.

the key, i think, is to find ways to make it challenging and interesting for him...it's just a problem that needs to be solved.  a challenge.  people like me like challenges.  i don't know if that is the case here, but if it is...that is a big part of the deal.

perhaps if you make it challenging.  start small and then raise the bar as he trains his mind to overcome distractions that make him forget or ignore the basics.

tell him that you bet him that he can't and i bet he will.

dunno...just reading about this brings back some really frustrating times but it also reminds me that i stuck it through and ended up going to grad school.  nothing is impossible.

most important thing is, i think, that he has to want it.

find a way to make him want it.
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Ripsnort

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2007, 04:07:38 PM »
Too much to reply to here but thanks for your insights, guys.

Guppy, sorry to hear about your son.  Two things that I do not do: I do NOT have high expectations "for me"  regarding grades but rather for HIM. Sure, its nice to say "he's doing well in school" but I despise those "My son is an honor roll student at Blah Blah High school" bumper stickers.  That sticker tells me that their son probably has no social skills, and no common sense.

Secondly, I don't force them to play sports that they don't want to play, I don't live my younger athletic years through them.  I *do* have a requirement that they participate in *a* sport though...I don't care if its mud wrestling girls, or football....I just want them to take care of their bodies and watch what they eat (and in the case of mud wrestling girls, you really have to watch what you eat! :rofl )

Anyway, the grades are for him, not me.  He has been consistent for 3 years now stating he wants to play college football one day (football is all he breaths, eats, lives, 24/7 365 days) and so I am trying to implement behavior based on good study habit and good grades, both of which you need in order to even be considered for college. If you're not pulling a 3.0 by your senior year (or better), then you're not going to go to a university.  

Those "study habits" start the moment they enter school. You don't start them in their senior year...by that time its too late.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Guppy35
That bond you create with times like that will be far more important as he gets older then anything grades will do.  

Hope that makes sense.
[/QUOTE]

Damn, that statement makes me feel bad about even bringing up grades.

But, I will still have a level of expectation from him. I just want him to do the best he's capable of doing, and I know him well enough that he's not meeting that capability.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 04:12:25 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline M36

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2007, 05:12:33 PM »
Quote
That bond you create with times like that will be far more important as he gets older then anything grades will do.


Amen Guppy35.

Thats what I was trying to accomplish with my decisions in the past with my son, but I couldn't put it as eloquent as you have.

Im sorry to hear about your son and your loss. to you!!!
“Honesty is like a good horse, it’ll work anyplace you hook it”

Ben Johnson  1917-1996

Offline Tac

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2007, 05:18:48 PM »
Rip,

Im not a father but I can give you two perspectives on things:

All through school my dad used to always point out that I could do better no matter what the results were or which subject it was in.

To give you an idea, in middle school I was once called last minute to replace one of the school's swimming team who had broken his leg to compete against other schools in a rather important national event. I was not on the swimming team, had never been in the swimming team, had never shown interest in joining it. My PhysEd teacher just knew I was a good swimmer from the one pool-session class we had once a month. I was pulled out of a class, asked if I could do it.. heck I would do anything to get away from math class those days so I said yes.. dumped on a school bus with the others in the team (all high-school level kids) and taken across the city for the event.

I won 2 gold and 1 silver from the 3 races I took part on. Against much older kids. At a flippin' moment's notice... and hell i was overweight for a kid my age those days. I got home and he told me that if i couldve done better to get the third gold medal (not directly but the inevitable comment came after the mandatory congratulations)

That was the day i remember I said FUG it and quit trying to put any effort on my schoolwork besides what was required to pass the class. I know it sounds retarded but when you're a kid you dont think about how it affects you in the long term, just in the very short term. And it just became my way of doing things.

I was pretty much a C student through the rest of middle and high school. Thing was though, my grades sucked because i gave a crap about homework and group assignments.. i did good on tests and class assignments. I can even say that I was one of the few in all my classes that retained what was being taught rather than memorizing and forgetting.

I graduated with a not so spectacular GPA and was 37th out of a class of 42... but I did come in 7th highest in the country's SAT equivalent (called ICFES.. and let me tell you the SAT is finger-painting compared to the ICFES.. holy sh* ) and was 2nd highest ICFES score in my graduating class. I never told my dad that.

Today im 30 and my parents are friends with a couple that has a daughter (10yrs old now). I've known that kid since she was 5 and she's brilliant. The kid plays the violin, is a straight A+ honor student and is even being considered to be advanced a whole grade level. A parent's dream.

I'm like a big brother to her (shes a single child) and from talking to her all these years I know her parents drive her hard on her studies and violin lessons. She plays the violin amazingly well but she's told me she doesnt like the violin..she just plays it because her parents make her do it. She likes school but she misses out a lot on being with her friends because she has to study several hours a day after school (before her daily hour long violin session). I know her parents use 'threats' to push her...from being mad at her to taking away her nintendo DS and i-pod for a week, denying to take her out to movies or to her friend's house, etc.  

This kid is like the opposite of me .. they forced her into excellence and although she is still in elementary she's already at the stage where she does this not for herself but because she is afraid of her parents. My parents never used threats on me but used the wrong kind of encouragement to the point I gave up trying to get encouragement from them and merely did what I had to do to avoid getting into trouble.

Again, im not a parent but I dont think that forcing a kid to perform in school  is right no matter how 'good' it is for their future... nor is it good to try to push them above and beyond when they are already trying.

If your kid has trouble because he procrastinates I can only suggest you try to find out why hes procrastinating and resolve that first ..working side by side with your kid not kicking him in the butt telling him to get his sh* together or else!.

Check his notebook.. if he is like me with his homework he might be doing only 10 out of the 40 assigned questions and dropping it. It never made sense to me to do 40 questions when doing 10 was practice enough and I understood the subject.

Offline AKIron

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2007, 05:25:58 PM »
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

-- Proverbs 13: 24 (KJV)


A father must discipline his son but let that discipline be guided by love and affection. I too had troubled times with my youngest but I have the comfort in knowing that he matured and appreciated that discipline before his time here was done.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Thrawn

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2007, 07:46:44 PM »
The first thing I was going to ask you was how was the hunting trip related to his school work.  Did you inform him before hand that going on the trip was contingent on his getting certain grades?


Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
FYI, he had his retake. Scored the highest possible for a re-take (80%) which brought his overall grade up.  Due to his studying last night, he totally forgot about a science paper that was due and got an F on it today.  It lowered his overall grade down in Science. I just got off the phone with him after berating him up and down. :mad:

I'm at wits end. :(



I'll say.  Getting mad at him is retarded.  You put a **** load of stress on him, he came through, then ****ed up the science because you stressed him?  I don't think that one is his fault.  Perhaps you better cop to some contributory negligence here.  Admit some fault to the son, tell him how proud you are off him for coming through in clinch on the re-take, laugh off the science and tell him you will work with him on his science when you get back from the hunting trip.  


You know, make a latter day saints commercial moment out of it.  ;)

Offline Thrawn

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2007, 07:55:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

-- Proverbs 13: 24 (KJV)



"Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord"

-- James 5:14


And if you kid gets sick, don't bother with a doctor.

Offline Frostbitee

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #72 on: November 21, 2007, 10:14:25 PM »
My husband and I seem to disagree sometimes on the strictness of punishments. But, my kids are 15 and 16 now and I think you did the right thing by addressing the issue with the grades. I am not sure I would agree with not letting him go hunting with you though. Family time is very very important, your time with him is special and taking that away should not be a punishment. I would punish him for the grades but not use no time with dad hunting as the punishment. Kids need the time with their parents and parents also need that from their kids. Please reconsider punishing him with no time with dad. And choose another punishment.

Froze

Offline Ripsnort

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #73 on: November 21, 2007, 10:53:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Frostbitee
My husband and I seem to disagree sometimes on the strictness of punishments. But, my kids are 15 and 16 now and I think you did the right thing by addressing the issue with the grades. I am not sure I would agree with not letting him go hunting with you though. Family time is very very important, your time with him is special and taking that away should not be a punishment. I would punish him for the grades but not use no time with dad hunting as the punishment. Kids need the time with their parents and parents also need that from their kids. Please reconsider punishing him with no time with dad. And choose another punishment.

Froze

I laughed alittle at your post...mainly because, we're doing something together every night of the week, 7 days a week, 364 days a year. Once a year my wife and I have a "Parents night out"...otherwise its all kids...be it sports, reading together, or just having fun. :aok

Offline Frostbitee

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Well, my oldest blew it
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2007, 12:18:57 AM »
Wonderful you do things with your children nightly, unfortunately alot of parents do not. My post was meant to be sincere not funny. I wish more parents spent time with their kids like you do. This still does not change my opinion of using time with father as a punishment. I don't agree with that, but then again that is my opinion. There are better methods to accomplish your authority.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family,
Froze