Author Topic: Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?  (Read 8437 times)

Offline Bingolong

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #180 on: December 08, 2007, 10:34:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... you didn't have to tell everyone.


and for bingalong... yes.. you can convert any semi auto into a full auto.. in the old days... the surplus stuff was really just full auto guns converted to semi auto.. these had the correct full auto receiver and bolt with just a few changes to the trigger group...  these were easy to convert to full auto.  reliable full auto.



lazs


Lazetta,
You would think in order to keep semi automatic weapons, some one might design one from the ground up so that it is not convertable period. Instead the other way around, auto dumbed down. you gun owners are your own worst enemies.

Offline Hornet33

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #181 on: December 08, 2007, 10:38:14 AM »
I've been following this thread for awhile and just to get things back on track with the original question........Where were all the sane, liscensed carrying gun owners in all this?

The answer is right there in the mall with the shooter, BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... the mall was a "Gun Free Zone" so all the law abiding sane licensed carrying gun owners were disarmed before they even got in the mall. Why??? Because the mall owners wanted to feel good about themselves by making it "gun free" so no one would come in and shoot up the place. OOPS!!!!

People will never learn. Good intentions are just fine but they tend to hurt real bad when reality smacks them in the face.

I'm personally to the point now a days that I'm going to carry my gun anywhere I damn well please within the legal statutes of the law. In Virginia that means I CANNOT carry in a court house, public school (though I CAN have it in my truck in the parking lot of a public school, new law just passed here) any establishment that sells liquor for the purpose of consumption on the property, state parks, and federal installations.

If Walmart doesn't like me carrying a firearm in their stores too damn bad. If the local malls don't like it too damn bad. They can sue me if they want but I'll never go into a gun free zone again un armed. They are about the most dangerous places in the country if your looking to get shot by some whack job.

I'm not taking any chances anymore. It's my Constitutional RIGHT as an American citizen to own a gun. I have a CCW license from my state to carry it in public. I follow the law. Just because some store has a gun free zone sign doesn't make it illegal for me to carry there. All they can do is ask me to leave. They can't have me arrested, they can't prosecute so screw em.

Now I'm off to the range. Need to unload my old hollow point ammo and re-stock with some new hydro shocks. This sheepdog has had enough.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline lazs2

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #182 on: December 08, 2007, 10:38:46 AM »
I think you missed the point bingie...

The new semi autos are designed from the ground up to be difficult (nothing is impossible) to convert.    You mostly just ruin a good weapon when you do so.

But.. how many converted semi autos have been a problem for you hand wringers?   How many last year were killed with converted semi autos?

I am glad that you aren't pretending to be a friend of gun owners anymore tho... it is refreshing to have you out of the closet.    Keep talking.

lazs

Offline Bingolong

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #183 on: December 08, 2007, 10:47:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think you missed the point bingie...

The new semi autos are designed from the ground up to be difficult (nothing is impossible) to convert.    You mostly just ruin a good weapon when you do so.

But.. how many converted semi autos have been a problem for you hand wringers?   How many last year were killed with converted semi autos?

I am glad that you aren't pretending to be a friend of gun owners anymore tho... it is refreshing to have you out of the closet.    Keep talking.

lazs


lazetti

Why would I suggest making a semi, closet man:) You know where I stand no machine guns for the population.
why would you say otherwise.... stimulation?

Offline B@tfinkV

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #184 on: December 08, 2007, 10:47:38 AM »
so in a gun free mall do they search you or are you supposed to own up and hand it in?

seems crazy that a gun free mall would be a place you could sneak a rifle through the doors.


honestly though...how many of you would keep your gun hidden and take it into a 'gun free' area anyhow?

I can see Lazs being asked to leave his gun at the door and telling them where to stick it before going to the local store for what he needs.


so maybe the answer is that all the sane licenced gun owners shop in places without laws that disrupt their lifestyle.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Tigeress

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #185 on: December 08, 2007, 10:49:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet33
I've been following this thread for awhile and just to get things back on track with the original question........Where were all the sane, liscensed carrying gun owners in all this?

The answer is right there in the mall with the shooter, BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... the mall was a "Gun Free Zone" so all the law abiding sane licensed carrying gun owners were disarmed before they even got in the mall. Why??? Because the mall owners wanted to feel good about themselves by making it "gun free" so no one would come in and shoot up the place. OOPS!!!!

People will never learn. Good intentions are just fine but they tend to hurt real bad when reality smacks them in the face.

I'm personally to the point now a days that I'm going to carry my gun anywhere I damn well please within the legal statutes of the law. In Virginia that means I CANNOT carry in a court house, public school (though I CAN have it in my truck in the parking lot of a public school, new law just passed here) any establishment that sells liquor for the purpose of consumption on the property, state parks, and federal installations.

If Walmart doesn't like me carrying a firearm in their stores too damn bad. If the local malls don't like it too damn bad. They can sue me if they want but I'll never go into a gun free zone again un armed. They are about the most dangerous places in the country if your looking to get shot by some whack job.

I'm not taking any chances anymore. It's my Constitutional RIGHT as an American citizen to own a gun. I have a CCW license from my state to carry it in public. I follow the law. Just because some store has a gun free zone sign doesn't make it illegal for me to carry there. All they can do is ask me to leave. They can't have me arrested, they can't prosecute so screw em.

Now I'm off to the range. Need to unload my old hollow point ammo and re-stock with some new hydro shocks. This sheepdog has had enough.


Great post, in my opinion, Hornet.

The victim's families... could they sue the mall because of the Gun Free Zone restriction?

That would surely open public debate and allow a public case to be made for sane licensed carrying gun owners.

TIGERESS

Offline lazs2

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #186 on: December 08, 2007, 10:58:19 AM »
don't get angry bingie.. no one is making machine guns.. least no more than are making car bombs or pipe bombs.. all are illegal and none are a real problem... you are manufacturing a problem.   But.. as I said..it is refreshing to see you out of the closet..even tho I had to practically drag you out.

Batfink...  I think that the point is that if we were all allowed to carry that there would be a lot less "gun free zones"  people would not shop a so called gun free mall.   I wouldn't  I would not try to sneak one in if the law would take away my gun rights for doing so... I would simply not shop there.

You don't really turn in the gun tho... you leave it in the car.. many people I know have gun safes in the car or they simply lock em in the trunk.

My point for wanting to be armed is not to somehow prevent every nut from killing people.. I don't think that is possible.  I do want to be in control of my own defense as much as possible tho.

lazs

Offline B@tfinkV

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #187 on: December 08, 2007, 11:06:31 AM »
i understand totaly. i used to get kicked out of this shopping center near me because the sobs wouldnt allow skateboards. I still remember the legendary time one of us made it though from door to door about 3 times before they got him.

skateboards are awesome weapons capable of inflicting mortal damage in one swipe...
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Hornet33

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #188 on: December 08, 2007, 11:09:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigeress
Great post, in my opinion, Hornet.

The victim's families... could they sue the mall because of the Gun Free Zone restriction?

That would surely open public debate and allow a public case to be made for sane licensed carrying gun owners.

TIGERESS


I know I would. The way I see it, the mall owner who is a private citizen denied fellow citizens of their second ammendment right on his/her property, but that property is open to the general public and so it's his/her responsiblity to provide for their protection in lew of letting them provide their own. The owner failed to do this so he/she should have the pants sued off of him/her by the families of the victims.

I can understand if I go over to someones home and they ask me not to bring my gun into their house. I have no problem with that. It's a private dwelling that is not open to the general public. I cannot go into that home without the express consent of the owner or I would be breaking the law.

A store on the other hand is a different story. Those are open to the general public. Unless the store is going to screen every single person who walks through the door for firearms, provide active security messures, then they cannot garantee my safety so they have no right to ask me to leave my gun outside.

Like I said before, all they can do is ask me to leave, and in that case I'll take my money and go buy what I need somewhere else.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline lazs2

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #189 on: December 08, 2007, 11:18:48 AM »
yep.. the real test would be to sue someone who declared a place a "gun free zone" and then failed to protect people from a gunman.

If you take away my right to protect myself and then allow others to attack me...

should you not be sued?  should you not be liable?  or at least.. say that entering a gun free zone... is the same as signing a waiver for your safety?  In which case it should be posted that the owner(s) of said gun free zone take no responsibility for your safety.

lazs

Offline Bingolong

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #190 on: December 08, 2007, 11:29:03 AM »
See Rule #5
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 06:33:52 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Tigeress

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #191 on: December 08, 2007, 11:41:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet33
I know I would. The way I see it, the mall owner who is a private citizen denied fellow citizens of their second ammendment right on his/her property, but that property is open to the general public and so it's his/her responsiblity to provide for their protection in lew of letting them provide their own. The owner failed to do this so he/she should have the pants sued off of him/her by the families of the victims.

I can understand if I go over to someones home and they ask me not to bring my gun into their house. I have no problem with that. It's a private dwelling that is not open to the general public. I cannot go into that home without the express consent of the owner or I would be breaking the law.

A store on the other hand is a different story. Those are open to the general public. Unless the store is going to screen every single person who walks through the door for firearms, provide active security messures, then they cannot garantee my safety so they have no right to ask me to leave my gun outside.

Like I said before, all they can do is ask me to leave, and in that case I'll take my money and go buy what I need somewhere else.


Then you and your local buddies could have grounds to sue right now against a big mall near you if there are no armed guards in the past thus exposing you and your family to this sort of risk, yes?

TIGERESS

Offline lazs2

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #192 on: December 08, 2007, 11:49:09 AM »
nice rant bingie but... evasive.

What are you trying to say?  that there is a dirge of converted semi autos out there causing all kinds of problems?  prove it.

I don't know where you live but.. I would hazard to say that there are men and women walking the streets with you that are armed and you don't even know it.

You are not in danger of them.   they may even help you some day.

As for a personal attack on me.. who cares?  you wear that seatbelt now huh sissy?  

that is the point.. we all evaluate our strengths and weaknesses and our options and threat level.. you really aren't gonna have your life saved by a seatbelt unless you are very unlucky but...  you will have about a 1 in 200 chance every year of being the victim of a violent crime.

It matters not if I can beat your butt or you mine.. it matters not if we can defend ourselves in a fair one on one fight with an unarmed (including knives and clubs) bad guy... for one..  that is not the way of the world and.. we are not typical.. the world is full of people who can't defend themselves against an attacker without some equalizer.   women.. the infirm.. you.. yep.. I am sure I could beat your butt.. I am postive I could and take whatever I wanted if I had one other guy.  

Unless you are saying that young and strong shouldn't have guns but everyone else should.. then I don't get your point.  You can't possibly think that everyone can take on any criminal threat with their bare hands?   You can't possibly think that you could?

your thinking is dangerous and myopic for yourself but downright irresposible and tyrannical when you apply it to others.. you have no right so far as I am concerened.

lazs

Offline FrodeMk3

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #193 on: December 08, 2007, 12:03:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bingolong
See Rule #5


Did you mean to click on the "What is a Militia" thread?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 06:34:42 AM by Skuzzy »

Offline Hornet33

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Where were the sane licensed carrying gun owners in all this?
« Reply #194 on: December 08, 2007, 12:14:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tigeress
Then you and your local buddies could have grounds to sue right now against a big mall near you if there are no armed guards in the past thus exposing you and your family to this sort of risk, yes?

TIGERESS


I have no grounds to sue anyone since I have been lucky to this point and not had any of my family members hurt or killed in a gun free zone. I like most everyone else have turned a blind eye to the potential hazzard that a gun free zone creates and have blindly accepted that my family or myself wont get hurt going to the mall to do some shopping.

What I have decided to do on a more proactive basis is to legaly carry my gun more often and to start challenging these gun free zones whenever and wherever I find them. I imagine I'll be mailing allot of these before too long.

THE POWER OF THE PEN

TELL YOUR LOCAL
ANTI-GUN BIGOTS
WHAT YOU THINK

The following form letter was created by Virginia activist T.S. Eggleston. He encourages you to use it when you find a store or other public establishment that posts one of those extremely dangerous No-Guns-Allowed type of sign.

 

[Date]
[Name of Offending Establishment]
[Address of Offending Establishment]
Attn: [Manager's Name]
Dear [Manager's Name]:

An acquaintance was beaten and robbed at knifepoint in a shopping center parking lot last year. Because of this, and numerous similar crimes in the news, I must question your 'no weapons' policy -- even for people holding court issued permits -- at [Mall or Store Name].

However well intended this policy may be, the net result is that law-abiding citizens are at the mercy of the criminal element while patronizing your establishment.

Firearm permit holders have passed thorough local, state and FBI criminal background checks. They are trained in safety and the law and the responsibilities they bear prior to being issued a permit by the proper authorities. Concealed firearms permit holders are therefore among the nation's most responsible and law-abiding citizens. Since the beginning of each state's programs, permit holders prove to be among the lowest crime rate groups in the nation. Imagine these two scenarios.

Criminals Welcome
The management of this facility has made
every effort to disarm your potential victims.
Law-abiding persons in our stores and parking lots are defenseless.

or

Warning To Criminals
Some Patrons in our Mall Stores and
Parking Lots May Be Legally Armed.
To help ensure the safety of our customers,
the management of this establishment
encourages the patronage of
Trained, Police Approved, FBI Cleared
Holders of Concealed Handgun Permits.

The former scenario is the message sent by your "no legal concealed firearms" policy, and in essence, the message you are sending to criminals who would prey on your patrons.

Do you genuinely believe that violent criminals, intent on plying their trade in your establishment are going to obey your signs?

I am not suggesting that you display signs welcoming permit holders onto your property, merely that you remove the signs denying us access and squelching our civil rights. Otherwise what you are telling the public is that the only people who are armed in your stores are the criminals. That's not very reassuring.

This holiday season my family and I made a concerted effort to avoid those stores and malls that would disarm honest citizens and leave them at the mercy of those who don't obey signs, rules or laws.

I urge you to examine your policy of leaving your law-abiding patrons defenseless when on your property, while at the same time encouraging and empowering armed criminals.

Respectfully
[Signature]
[Name]
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"