190 Series Vs. P38 Series

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by stephen
so your saying a 190 that merges with a 38 co alt and co speed, it will be caught by a 38 that has to turn 180 degrees to follow?

who's not making sense now?

without a clear advantage in speed, a fight is really up to whomever makes the least mistakes, I tell you what though ...A 38 aint gonna bug out fast enough co alt so a 190 cant follow him,...honestly tell me, can a 38 catch a 190 that doesnt want to be caught?

and to take the argument further, can the 38 keep the 190 from reversing out of view range ad making another pass?....NO it cant, and it cant run away either, so as I said before, if there is no clear adantage in piloting, or alt/speed only the 190 can dictate the fight....all the 190 has to do is not turn until its far enough away to succesfuly re-engage, heck tell me if my thinking is wrong....

By the way, your post is so full of holes and assumptions that to properly demonstrate the over abundance of fallacies would take hours.

Assumption: The P-38 is going to flat turn toward the speeding 190. False.

Assumption: The P-38 is going to wander along aimlessly and thoughtlessly while the 190 "extends" to gain the advantage. False. Again.

Assumption: Speed always dictates the fight. You wish. But false. Again.

Only a fool is going to blow all his speed and energy turning a P-38 to merge with a 190.

Only an idiot is going to watch a 190 blow past and just fly straight and level while the 190 sets up for another pass.

A 190 will not out run and out accelerate a P-38 at all speeds and all altitudes.

And that's JUST the really obvious stupidity in your post.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by stephen
because if I continue on a level course, and the 38 turns 180 degrees to follow me, he WILL have a lower energy state and I can rope him..{in a co alt co E merge}

If the P-38 pilot knows what he's doing, you won't be able to rope him.  In fact, it will end up a reverse rope as you will stall out before the P-38 and he'll just get you as you drop by in your stall.  That's the beauty of the P-38, its far superior vertical performance over any of the FW190s.  

The drop in energy on the turn after merge will be minimul for the P-38 since the turn will be nose down and no more than 3Gs.  In fact, the P-38 is most likely to come out with more energy after the nose low turn than what they entered with.

Enjoy.


ack-ack

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
If the P-38 pilot knows what he's doing, you won't be able to rope him.  In fact, it will end up a reverse rope as you will stall out before the P-38 and he'll just get you as you drop by in your stall.  That's the beauty of the P-38, its far superior vertical performance over any of the FW190s.  

The drop in energy on the turn after merge will be minimul for the P-38 since the turn will be nose down and no more than 3Gs.  In fact, the P-38 is most likely to come out with more energy after the nose low turn than what they entered with.

Enjoy.


ack-ack

Hell be too busy run... extending to 6k away to think what the 38 is doing.
He is the typical pick and run mook. Don't get em on the initial pass he'll run across the map not to get shot down. That's why he's in the 190.

[montein]

What would you do if after the pass the p-38 climbs, while your extending you will never be able to get above the 38! go as far as you want but the 38 will be higher then you at all times. You will never get the chance to have more e! Oh yea I guess you could just never turn around, guess then you would never die, heck you might have taken more fuel and the 38 will run out faster and has to ditch before you do. I guess that could be a win, but wait the 38 has alot more range, shoot that will not work.

Nick172

[Benny Moore]

Anyone says that any FW-190 in the game can compete with the P-38 in a fair fight doesn't know the two aircraft very well.  The only way the FW-190 can even survive, assuming both pilots know their ships, is if it's a D model and the pilot simply runs.

[stodd]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
Anyone says that any FW-190 in the game can compete with the P-38 in a fair fight doesn't know the two aircraft very well.  The only way the FW-190 can even survive, assuming both pilots know their ships, is if it's a D model and the pilot simply runs.

nope ^

[Murdr]

Originally posted by stephen
arial combat is not a 1 on 1 event, we do not approach an nme whom we know holds a supperior advantage. if possible we stab him in the back whilst hes not paying attention.

Who is this "we"?  I do, often with success.

[33Vortex]

Originally posted by Fianna
Awesome!!

Let me know when you sign back on, and we can go to the DA. You climb to 10k in the Dora, I'll be at 5k in a 38J.

Then we can do a co-alt merge.

Then we'll do a merge with me at 10k and you at 5k.




I'd be surprised if I lost one.

I'd win the 1st one, maybe the 2nd (don't know how good a stick you are, or what luck you may carry with you ) but I would probably (edit) not win the 3rd.

Originally posted by Raptor
Stephen you're now saying "The 190 suites my style of fighting the best" which is a legitimate statement.
Saying "The 190 is superior to the P38" is not.

I agree wholeheartedly with this Raptor. The plane you're most effective in will be the one you're most comfortable with. In AH we have the luxury to fly whichever type we want. Purely technically speaking it's rather easy to say which planes are better than others, just look at the performance figures. As soon as you add in the human factor, it becomes slightly less predictable.

[33Vortex]

Practically every sortie I up in a 190, usually the D-9. I've learnt the hard way to be wary of 38's until I get a feel of the pilot's skill level. You can get a good sense of a pilot's capability in the merge, then you'll know whether you can push it or try to extend to disengage, assuming the fight start out with roughly equal E.

If I have a E advantage (something I strive for being a Dora pilot) I'm always certain of a kill unless the opponent is skilled enough to repeatedly avoid my shots or someone shows up to help him. If you find yourself in a fair fight flying any 190, you've decieved yourself because it's not, you're the sitting duck. That's the biggest disadvantage of the 190.

There's pretty much only one way to fly the 190 and it's fast, as fast as you can. Start turning and you're doomed. Simple facts, it's no secret. There's no über trick to it. You just have to learn what you can, and can't, do with (and against) each plane type.

Arguing that plane type A is so much better than plane type B is pointless imo. Performance figures are factual, not debatable, assuming the figures are correct. In all cases of air combat it's a mix of pilot skill, opportunity, planning (if you're smart) and sometimes just blind luck. Sure a/c performace has a impact, but is easily offset by any of the above.

Just my €0.02

[trigger2]

Originally posted by montein
What would you do if after the pass the p-38 climbs,

Nick172

I will hit WEP, start to climb with it, and let my 30mm's loose :]
Or 20mm's if I took that package...

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by trigger2
I will hit WEP, start to climb with it, and let my 30mm's loose :]
Or 20mm's if I took that package...

So merging co-alt, and co-E, you're going to reverse into a P-38 that is going away, and climbing?  And then you're going to climb to it?

[Urchin]

I'm just speaking from my own experience here, but I don't think that any 190 will win any sort of "fight" against any P-38 (i.e. 190A-F, Ta-152, P-38G-L).  The 190s in this game are kind of just lumbering dumptrucks, they used to be much more manueverable and dangerous (going back to AH1 days, anyway).

That said, the 190 is just manueverable enough that if you can catch the P-38 pilot off guard you can end a fight quickly, providing you hit the shot you get.  

Co-E is the hardest fight for me if I'm in a 190.  If I have an E advantage, I can generally manage to convert that to a killing shot.  If I am at an E disadvantage, I can generally force an enemy pilot into bleeding off his excess energy trying to get a clean shot.  Probably about 1/10 of the time, I get killed, 4/10 of the time the con blows his E, but stays fast enough to fly in front of me (and I hit the shot), and about half the time I miss the shot.

 From there I can fight if I think the other guy is completely incompetent, or run if I think he has a quarter of a clue.  Because co-E, no 190 has any shot at winning a fight against any model P-38 (or any model anything, really).  Craptacular slow speed handling combined with atrocious turn performance pretty much guarantees that.  The acceleration also really isn't anything to write home about.  

Of course, in the MA the D-9 is used by folks who should really be in the La-7, but would never take advantage of the La-7s far superior manueverability (plus there is the stigma of using the "EZ MODE" plane).  The D-9 is a good cherry picker, and as long as you keep it around 375 mph and fly in long straight lines, you will be able to maintain a decent K/D ratio.

[Scherf]

Originally posted by Urchin
providing you hit the shot you get.  

word

[Lusche]

Originally posted by Urchin

Of course, in the MA the D-9 is used by folks who should really be in the La-7, but would never take advantage of the La-7s far superior manueverability  

No, we fly it because of better ENY (=more perks) and we hate to have an empty tank 1 min after arrival at an enemy base

[trigger2]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
So merging co-alt, and co-E, you're going to reverse into a P-38 that is going away, and climbing?  And then you're going to climb to it?

not climb TO it, if you think about it, you don't need to be right next to the p38 to shoot it, it's a huge plane, if it's within d800 i can take out the wings easy, d1000, with a touch of luck, I can take off some stuff. If you pull up and bring it over the top after the merge into a p38, your going to be doing what it did, and you'll be in about d400, well in range of guns.