Author Topic: I came, I saw  (Read 2556 times)

Offline WMLute

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« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2008, 10:06:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
If it helps you to keep taking what I said out of context then by all means, use it however you wish.  Not sure why I expexted more from you but I wont make that mistake again.


I am not sure what ya' mean here Slash...

I went back and re-read what you posted, and I can't see any other way to "take" it.

[paraphraseSlash] This current setup is brining in numbers to the AvA and if you don't like the setup, go fly in another arena/event[/paraphraseSlash].

And I don't really see any other way of taking it.  It's pretty straight forward.  If you MEANT something else, perhapse post what you were TRYING to say.

I don't have a problem with what you said at all.  I would say similar to people that fly KOTH and don't like it.  I am glad to see the numbers in the AvA and that it appears to have breathed new life into an arena that was rarely used.

Kudos to you and yours for acheiving this, and I hope that it continues and the AvA stays full.

I just won't be a part of it.  Heck, the WM's can do what they want.  Just 'cause I tell 'em something, doesn't mean they gota listen to me.  (ain't my squad great)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 10:08:32 PM by WMLute »
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
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Absurdum est ut alios regat, qui seipsum regere nescit

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2008, 10:21:36 PM »
My intent was not to come off as a dick or that I did not care people have some issues with the set up. Its not for everybody I get that, but in my opinion its the best thing for the arena. Its not what my vision of the AvA was but Ive accepted that and moved on. I guess Im mostly so defensive about because I know how much effort Fork and Soda have put in this. It wasnt easy. Sorry you guys wont be sticking around. See in you KOTH <>

Offline heythere

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« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2008, 10:52:18 PM »
we should all realize just how much time has been put into this set up plus how much time it took to conceptualize prior to it's deployment.  theses guys do that for free.  the numbers were more than the MW/EW combined tonight.

I say that the thing is a success irrespective of the novelty.  it's been strong this whole tour and my initial reaction to the italian was that it would tank the momentum.  that has happily not occurred.

folks seem to want an objective, they have that.  folks seem to like to work co-operatively they have it here.

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2008, 02:06:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by heythere
we should all realize just how much time has been put into this set up plus how much time it took to conceptualize prior to it's deployment.  theses guys do that for free.  the numbers were more than the MW/EW combined tonight.

I say that the thing is a success irrespective of the novelty.  it's been strong this whole tour and my initial reaction to the italian was that it would tank the momentum.  that has happily not occurred.

folks seem to want an objective, they have that.  folks seem to like to work co-operatively they have it here.


That's true. But the problem is, not everyone thinks' that way. some just pop in for a good fight.

Slash, Lute, I hate to say this, but maybe it's time you guys' took a straw poll to see exactly what the people want. Make it simple, have them vote for something like "Strategy gameplay", or "outright combat" (That's Win-the-war or furballing, for those that are wondering.)

And, maybe use those results' to design the next AvA scenario. Hold it in General Discussion, since most of the AvA players' are there anyway, and It might help draw in even more players, if that is the idea.

BTW, for what the AvA staff has accomplished, You guys' deserve huge kudos. <>

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2008, 02:21:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by TequilaChaser

really is nothing more to say, it is what it is........the whiners were absolutely loud enough to cause or force the Avs A staff to make a change....the only thing is they did it to make a better arena , for getting more people to fly in the AvsA, they just did not take into account for all the side effects these new ideas would bring to this once "wonderful place to fly/participate".......


Not really.  The staff made the choice because it was in a quest to bring people into the arena.  They were successful.  That is all they cared about.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2008, 02:24:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Slash27
Thats not what I said. This is what I said "If you dont like you dont have to fly there.". Don't misinterpret the meaning, don't twist it in to what you think I'm trying say or what suits your point of view. I was pretty clear in what I said. No ones putting a gun to your head to be here and this isn't your only option in AH2. No said your not welcome either.


Well, no one is putting a gun on your heads to keep messing with the arena.  Accept failure and stop "helping"  :aok
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2008, 02:47:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Well, no one is putting a gun on your heads to keep messing with the arena.  Accept failure and stop "helping"  :aok


Failure according to you? Ill take that for whats its worth.

Offline Slash27

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« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2008, 02:50:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FrodeMk3

Slash, Lute, I hate to say this, but maybe it's time you guys' took a straw poll to see exactly what the people want. Make it simple, have them vote for something like "Strategy gameplay", or "outright combat" (That's Win-the-war or furballing, for those that are wondering.)



I have no issue with that at all. Its the players arena and this staff has never treated it as our personel sandbox. We want people to enjoy it.

Offline VonMessa

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« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2008, 06:12:51 AM »
Thank you AvA staff. This is for you (the Scotch is a bit pricey)







The following is for whines about Vulch, Hoard, etc.................









We all have objectives, we must plan a strategy, and there are goals.  We get awarded points.  Not my noodle is larger than your noodle bragging points, but points we can spend as a side, to get better equipment and take away some of the enemies (even though we can't use em yet) toys.

This (if I am correct) is not a place for a gentleman's fight.  We are (all of us) given objectives, and that is to take real estate.  Hell, we even must prove it now.  Great idea!!  I like it.
 
If you don't want to get killed 17 times, vulches, etc.   Try this idea.

Its simple.................wait for it..............just a little longer....................... ...........


DON"T KEEP UPPING.

If you were getting shocked, you would stop pissing on the electric fence, I hope.  (Barring the fact that it is known that some have had their gene pool pissed in)
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We are all here because we are not all there.

Offline Stampf

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« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2008, 07:38:38 AM »
(First, Thank you AvA Staff).

JJ was doing what he had to do in order to foil an Axis capture.  I was doing what I had to do to assist fellow Axis units in that capture.  Bottom line, should have ended there.

I have never driven an M8 in my life before this AvA war.  I was not there to camp, I was loaded out with 1/2 HE for goodness sake.  We needed that base and that last hanger.  It is our Pnzr. Base.

I could not stop JJ from getting out of hanger every time.  Several times he got out, but never once came around to engage me, nor spun his MG while spawning to track, and or turret me. (?).  Each time he headed straight to Map room, where he was promptly killed by the attacking planes.  So…he would spawn again and I would shoot him once with AP and twice with HE and try to kill him, while above, Axis and Allied planes fought it out.  

A single Allied player, helping JJ and this thread would never have come up.  I could not believe it!  There was no possible way for me to handle two Gv’s spawning together.  All in all, it was one of the most shockingly surprising sorties of my AH carrer.

I ran out of ammunition and had to fall back just as the final goons were AGAIN attempting to get troops in.  JJ got out and again was bombed from above.

We got our Pnzr base.

Edit:  It is also intersting to note, I was the ONLY Axis GV on the scene, and unsupplied.  An easy Kill for two men working together, let alone a single 38...But they only had eyes for the goons.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 07:54:14 AM by Stampf »
- Der Wander Zirkus -
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Offline Sundiver

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« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2008, 10:13:23 AM »
I think it comes down to those of us that remember what the Combat Theater used to be. A place where you could go find a good fight. A place where they took pride in the scenarios that came week after week. Where alot of thought went into the planesets and game balance and authenticty of the the scenarios.  A place where you knew /most of the time/ you could up and get E before being engaged even if your opponent was circling overhead. I plaed the CT for many years, it was a place where I brought new players who really wanted to learn how to fight and fly because I knew the people there would be both tolerant and teaching even as they shot you down.

Sorry Slash and Fork and Soda, I've known you all for years, you're all class acts. I hope you achieve what you want with the new setup. I won't be there. I dropped in over the weekend and whether or not my perception of it was correct the first thing it struck me as was a mini-ma. Personally I don't think it's worth achieving numbers in the AvA if it means sacrificing the integrity it once had to achieve that goal. But, that's just my two cents.

To all the AvA staff and good luck with your arena.

Macchi/paradigm

Offline Grits

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« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2008, 10:34:53 AM »
I need to give a little history for those that were not around in the AH1 days. The Combat Theater, as the AvA was called back then, had a normal nightly population of 20-30 with big squad nights pushing 50 or more. We had base captures, and JG3 was the best at it (and we hated them for it). They did it by coming in as an organized group and suppressing the base, IE vulching, porking, and that is OK that is what you do to capture a base. There was no structured reason for them to do it as there is now, they did it because one, it was an easy squad mission, and two, they were good at it. Sometimes HUGE fights erupted at bases they tried to capture that lasted hours. Sometimes they tried to sneak quiet bases.

At that time the CT also had other dedicated Axis squads, like DrEvil's Death Squad. The axis in general was out numbered, but not always. I, as a side switcher, spent probably 70% of my time flying Axis back then but even when numbers were low we would have 8-10 on each side. I dont remember exactly when it was, but some time before the introduction of AHII JG3 left the arena. Some core members, Storch, TK, N7, VWE, and a few others I forgot I'm sure, formed JG54. This was the heyday of the CT (now the AvA). Then came AHII.

With AHII, lots of people did not have the computer to run the game. Also, there were only a few maps, none of them our old Combat Theater maps, and they were not good for AvA use. The lack of proper AvA suitable maps at the startup of AHII really killed the AvA, those that were there at the time will remember. Between the higher requirements to run AHII and the bad map situation, the AvA population plummeted. Squads could no longer take bases because there just were not enough people to do it. Even the guys that came from JG3 and formed JG54 who were so good at base capture, stopped doing it and along with the arena morphed into primarily a furball squad. They had to, the low numbers would not really support anything else. I personally liked it, because thats all I wanted to do was furball, but it happened because the numbers were too low to do any organized squad missions, not because that is what the arena was designed for or that is what everyone in there wanted. Some of the best fights ever were over base captures that teetered in the balance.

So, all of you who think of the AvA as an "historic furball arena" that is what it became out of necessity from the low numbers, but that is not what it was in the AHI days. The AvA staff, it seems to me, has designed a way to reintroduce base capture, and organized squad participation, but in a focused and organized way instead of the random way it was back then.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 10:37:15 AM by Grits »

Offline VonMessa

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« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2008, 11:16:54 AM »
The following is a post-coffee post.



I think that comparing the new AvA to anything old is pointless.  It is just that....new.  Also trying to impose any form of fighting honor or etiquette may not be in good form in the AvA, given the new setup.

Both sides are given objectives to complete within a given time frame.  

In order to complete these objectives, plans must be hatched, cooperation between friendly forces must be paramount, and orders/plans must be swiftly executed.

Proof of completion of said objectives must also be submitted to acquire points and rewards for objective completion.  Furthermore, I believe that all of these things are clearly stated in the MOTD.

This is not the DA.  Given the conditions, timetable, and objectives, there is not much time for the normal "gentleman's fight" or furball.  This is not a free for all like the MA, either.  

Folks here are are running planned missions.  They are trying to take real estate.   Plan on getting vulched, hoarded, etc as these things pan out.  

K/D, blah, blah, blah means nothing here in the normal tool waving scheme of things, so being vulched should not be a big deal.  I will up 100 times if I think I can thwart a capture of a base.  f I get downed 99 times, but kill that "20th"  troop trying to get into the map room, I have succeeded in my mission of   keeping ownership of real estate in question.  End of story.

  As stated in another post, this is a bar-room brawl.  I have not seen it written or implied that this is the place to come for a "duel" or a "good" fight.  The fight here is for land, destruction of strats, or whatever else the MOTD or posts to respective sides about what secondary objectives there may be.

Honestly, if one want's Blunderbuss's at 20 paces or a fencing match, these can be set up in the DA,  24/7.

If I let myself get into the crosshair of the emeny, shame on me, whether it be  in the air, taking off, coming out of the hanger, etc.  If I see a red guy, no matter where he is, I will shoot at it.  Shame on HIM for getting in MY crosshair.
 
Unless I am mistaken, and please correct me if I am, this is a Side (dare I say team) based reward/victory system.   I would be hard pressed to have faith in any countryman who is concerned for his personal stats.  This makes for a very dangerous situation.  I know that said person is not really watching MY six.

In closing, I would like to say that individuals who complain about getting vulched X number of times, even though they keep upping, are the reason that we need disclaimers about how the fresh coffee is HOT and it may BURN you.

Call the lifeguard, please.
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We are all here because we are not all there.

Offline 4440

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« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2008, 11:39:39 AM »
I gotta say that this has got to be be one of the most pathetic self- centered threads I've seen. To have a handful of players act as if this arena was your private playground is sad.

To have senior members of the game verbally abuse and even enter into personal attacks of staff members trying to acheive something that provides enjoyment to a larger portion of the community is even worse. The thread as a whole has become nothing more than a public flogging.


Some of you talk about integrity and honor, wheres the honor in the " fine, I take my toys and leave attitute"? Where is the integrity in igoring pleas for help from fellow side members, just because that isn't your cup of tea?

To cal the AvA a mini MA is quite frankly incorrect. Does the MA offer structured objectives?  No.  Do they offer any type of incentive to work as a squad? No.  You wanna know why some guys will bomb and bail? It's because no one wants to work as a team and their forced to use such tactics to accomplish a goal.

If you want to make this arena better, try offering some constructive crititism. Not everyone will be truly happy at the end of the day, but your not helping things by simply bashing others.

Offline VonMessa

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« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2008, 12:17:43 PM »
Agreed.


I feel that at least my deaths serve some sort of purpose here.


Again, I the AvA staff for all the time effort.   Thanks for not making it the same crap with a different name.

It's not the same, please don't make it that way.  I believe that your efforts will be rewarded.
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We are all here because we are not all there.