LA7 Dweeby?

[Ciaphas]

It's definitely the pilot and not the aircraft as a tool is only as effective as the person using it. As far as the running thing that's kind of a hard one. If I'm flying against something that turns on a spec of dust and I allow myself to get lured in to the turn fight I will try to put some distance between me and my opponent. is that wrong? No, it's not. It's the smart move to make. Why am I going to stick around in a losing situation when I can get some separation and re-engage the foe? The HO'ing thing is another subject that is kinda of pointless to discuss because every pilot here has the opportunity to break the HO'ing attempt. If you get sucked in to it you have no one to blame but yourself.

<S>

Ciaphas

[PanosGR]

It is not just the la witch is way to easy to fly. Its every plane in AH. Maybe the FM is more than accurate but the care-free handling is a disappointment. Is like we “fly” WWII planes with a “fly-by-wire” system 

[Sincraft]

The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane.  If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you.  It's bugged and should be taken out of the game.  Barring the other planes receive the same alien technology to even the field.
All they need to do is give it 2000 rounds cannon ammo and charge an additional $5 per month for the use of that plane and call it a day.

The LA7 is a small and annoying target.  I rarely get shot down by them.  They are equal to flies at a picnic.  You just have to make sure you keep your eye on them like the other astronauts flying the p51s when you are en route with bombs/missiles.   If anyone thinks the la7 is that great of a plane, fly it for awhile.  Sure it can bnz and do some turn fighting but...well just fly it for awhile.   

My personal favorite is the p51.  I rarely fly it as I can never count on the prediction code figuring out my bb's correctly.  Thus, sometimes a full onslaught of ammo dumped via dead 6 will results in nothing more than an enemy pilot tilting his wing to find out what that annoying sound is.  The p51 is best for BnZ and fast pass squirts it seems.  For some reason the ammo is more effective. 
I'm not sure why this plane is an 8eny because it really isn't that effective.  Sure it's fast, but the ammo sucks.

Probably more of an opinion than you wanted eh?



 

[toonces3]

Actually agree with a few points there.

For all the bashing on the La-7, I rarely get killed by them.

And, for all the raving about how uber they are, I've tried flying them a bit this tour.  I don't find it a particularly easy plane to fly well.  Those LE slats bop the plane all over the place and the guns are teh suxor.  I can't hit crap with them.

I strongly prefer the Yak-9U over the La-7.

I dunno, I just don't find the La-7 as uber as everyone makes out.  Maybe I just suck in it.

[BnZ]

I began flying the La-7 when I got tired of being b-n-z'd by folks in 190-d9s and p-51s...the last thing they want to see is a La-7 show up co-alt...that is its strength...it can move as fast as 190s and 51s and outturn them when they are caught...

I'm not attacking you personally, but the point needs to be raised. Can one really claim any sort of "moral high ground" by winning a match-up in which one enjoys every single performance advantage?

As an alternative, wouldn't it be neater to run down that Pony in one of its historical foes, say the 190D9/109K? They are perfectly capable of catching a Pony. Because these two planes are far less maneuverable than the La however, I suspect many who give this reason for flying the La7 consider killing the cornered runstang in a 190/109K to be too sporting a proposition.

The above quote actually illustrates why the La7 should have a light perk price, without intending to do so of course. Not only does it out-run and out-turn the Pony/D9, it does the same thing to every other non-perk LW high-speed E fighter at typical MA alts-Jug/Typh/109G/K. If it was faster than everything, but turned like a Dora, it would deserve no perkage. When I run down a Pony with my Dora, he stands a fair chance, to say the least. Every LW plane in the game except the FW-190A8 has a built-in game plan against the Dora-use angles. On the other extreme, the Zero out-turns most everything, but most other planes in the set have a game plane against it to. The LW planeset generally falls into a rough spectrum of this sort: Most planes trade maneuverability for performance in a linear manner. The La-7 is the glaring exception to this rule. As someone else pointed out, you can milk more range out of the thing than you'd think, and the guns don't suck as much as claimed. The ONLY factor keeping the La7 from driving the P-51/190/P-47/Typhoon/109K4 into obsolete status in the LW MA is the contempt for La7s found in AHII player culture. In the La-7, you have an airplane that out-runs everything, and out-turns everything even close to it in top speed-if that doesn't constitute an argument for at least a light perk price, I don't know what does.

For comparison's sake, the only prop fighter faster on the deck than the La7 is the Tempest...and it is decidedly less maneuverable and easier to fight. So the Tempest deserves the highest perk price for any prop plane, while the La7 doesn't even warrant 5 points or so? The intellectually honest will have to admit that the situation just doesn't make logical sense.

[Anaxogoras]

Read again what I wrote, your comment applies as well.


ack-ack

No, the logical failure is on your side ack-ack.  Having a bigger pair has little to do with being a better or more skilled player.  Bravery and flying skill are two different things: witness the many skilled pilots who are nonetheless cowardly to prove the point.

Your point only makes sense if you want to play on the ambiguity of the word "better," because you can stretch that around to mean nearly anything.

[Bronk]

The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane.  If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you.  It's bugged and should be taken out of the game.  Barring the other planes receive the same alien technology to even the field.
All they need to do is give it 2000 rounds cannon ammo and charge an additional $5 per month for the use of that plane and call it a day.

The LA7 is a small and annoying target.  I rarely get shot down by them.  They are equal to flies at a picnic.  You just have to make sure you keep your eye on them like the other astronauts flying the p51s when you are en route with bombs/missiles.   If anyone thinks the la7 is that great of a plane, fly it for awhile.  Sure it can bnz and do some turn fighting but...well just fly it for awhile.   

My personal favorite is the p51.  I rarely fly it as I can never count on the prediction code figuring out my bb's correctly.  Thus, sometimes a full onslaught of ammo dumped via dead 6 will results in nothing more than an enemy pilot tilting his wing to find out what that annoying sound is.  The p51 is best for BnZ and fast pass squirts it seems.  For some reason the ammo is more effective. 
I'm not sure why this plane is an 8eny because it really isn't that effective.  Sure it's fast, but the ammo sucks.

Probably more of an opinion than you wanted eh?



 

LMAO
XVI driver usually HAS to stay and fight. Where as the other 2 mentioned tuck tail and haul. But you just keep on thinking the way you do.

[E25280]

The ONLY factor keeping the La7 from driving the P-51/190/P-47/Typhoon/109K4 into obsolete status in the LW MA is the contempt for La7s found in AHII player culture. In the La-7, you have an airplane that out-runs everything, and out-turns everything even close to it in top speed-if that doesn't constitute an argument for at least a light perk price, I don't know what does.

For comparison's sake, the only prop fighter faster on the deck than the La7 is the Tempest...and it is decidedly less maneuverable and easier to fight. So the Tempest deserves the highest perk price for any prop plane, while the La7 doesn't even warrant 5 points or so? The intellectually honest will have to admit that the situation just doesn't make logical sense.

To be "intellectually honest" in comparing those planes, you have to admit to yourself that there is more to this game (like it or not) than simply fighting other airplanes on the deck.  The LA-7 is a very poor attack aircraft relative to the P-51 / P-47 / Typh / Temp.  Heck, even the Dora carries a 500KG bomb.  The LA-7 loses its performance advantage as altitude increases, unlike most of the aircraft you have mentioned.  To top it off, all of those aircraft you mentioned have higher ENY values than the LA-7, so "duh" the game has already recognized it has a performance advantage in most game-related air-to-air combat situations.

So, no, I see no reason for the LA-7 (or Spit XVI for that matter) to be perked.  It is far from unbalancing the game overall, and iirc, isn't even the most used aircraft -- and it isn't because of "reputation", but in fact is related to it's performance.

[E25280]

I have no problems getting 45 mins of fuel in an La7.   Most "dweebs" haven't a clue on how to use the strengths of the La7.   They just roll, WEP, BnZ or HO.   

The La7 is one of the best turnfighters in the game.

Next time I run into you on-line, I might ask you to take me to the DA and show me how to use that blasted plane, if you are agreeable.  Despite all of its advantages, I have never been able to do anything with it other than smack the occasional tree.  Obviously I am doing it wrong, being the clueless dweeb that I am.

[BaldEagl]

Can one really claim any sort of "moral high ground" by winning a match-up in which one enjoys every single performance advantage?

Yes, as long as it's against multiple cons which seems to be the order of the day in the MA's.  I'm willing to take on the inevitable hoardlettes but I like to have the right tools for the job because I like to land my sorties too.

The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane.  If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you. 

So you do have respect for the skilled players picking in Temps and HOing in C-Hogs then?  Or running from fights in Ponys?  Curious.

[BnZ]

You have a point about attack E2, but nothing fatal to my argument. The Temp might as well have been left out btw-because of its perk price and vulnerable radiator it will rarely be used as a jabo, unlike even the lightly perked C-Hog. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on how well various fighters do a bomber's job. Most jabo runs are suicide missions anyway, the performance of the bomb truck in dogfighting being almost irrelevant. For alot of people, this game IS  about fighting other airplanes only, and the deck, like it or not, is where its at. The La7 doesn't suck as an airplane even abit above its strongest altitude, and let's face it, performance above 20K is almost irrelevant in the MA. And of course, La7 can drag any fight to its best alt simply by diving.  Sure, if most MA action was at 30K, the P-47N and Ta-152 would deserve perking, and the La7 would be almost worthless. Such is not the case, performance from SL to 10K is the most important factor in the AHII MA. ENY doesn't control plane usage to any great extent, all it does as far as I can tell is annoy people on the more numerous side into changing arenas. And the ENY numbers themselves are bizarre, consider that a P-47N has the same ENY as an La7 or Spit16...huh?

It is irrelevant that the La7 is not the most used plane, popularity does not determine performance. The P-51 is the most popular ride in the game despite its many areas of mediocrity, the Ki-84 is under-used in relation to its ability, that doesn't mean the P-51 should be perked or that the Ki should have an ENY of 30.

The difference between the La7 and Spit16 btw, is that most LW fighters which cannot dog-fight the Spit16 on equal terms are at least a little bit faster.

If there is no reason to perk the La7, then there is no reason to perk the other rides IMO, except possibly the jets and rockets. The Tempest, C-Hog, Spit14, and F4U-4 aren't "magic", an unskilled pilot will in any of them can be beaten by an expert flying a P-40. So why perk 'em, why not just let people fly what they want?  

To be "intellectually honest" in comparing those planes, you have to admit to yourself that there is more to this game (like it or not) than simply fighting other airplanes on the deck.  The LA-7 is a very poor attack aircraft relative to the P-51 / P-47 / Typh / Temp.  Heck, even the Dora carries a 500KG bomb.  The LA-7 loses its performance advantage as altitude increases, unlike most of the aircraft you have mentioned.  To top it off, all of those aircraft you mentioned have higher ENY values than the LA-7, so "duh" the game has already recognized it has a performance advantage in most game-related air-to-air combat situations.

So, no, I see no reason for the LA-7 (or Spit XVI for that matter) to be perked.  It is far from unbalancing the game overall, and iirc, isn't even the most used aircraft -- and it isn't because of "reputation", but in fact is related to it's performance.

[zoozoo]

When im up against an la7 i give them my 6 then i just cut throttle and shake them off. They usually never both to slow down. The second the pass me i try to get a quick burt off cannon or machine gun in them, usually my tactic. 

[BnZ]

Yes, as long as it's against multiple cons which seems to be the order of the day in the MA's.  I'm willing to take on the inevitable hoardlettes but I like to have the right tools for the job because I like to land my sorties too.

So you do have respect for the skilled players picking in Temps and HOing in C-Hogs then?  Or running from fights in Ponys?  Curious.

The Spit8/16 are better than the La7 as desperate base defense airplanes. They climb just as well/better, accelerate well, and defend themselves by turning a lot better. If you can't kill/drive off the attackers with Spits, you can't do it with an La7. Along that line, the WW/Osti/Field guns are the best vulch breaking tool of all. Having two VHs on an airbase would do alot more to shut down base-take horde tactics than any sort offighter. So no, "I need a constant supply of free La7s to defend the base" is not a valid argument against a perk price for the La7.

You like to LAND after a sortie? Well, that's just pure "cowardice" and lameness by some accounts, not that I agree with that attitude. Call me crazy for thinking that having to choose between speed OR maneuverability is a fair concept. Arguments can always go both ways on issues like this...a D9 is a great plane for bouncing one of the endless NOE raids, killing some, and getting clean away with it...you know, unless they also brought an La7.

Respect? What is there to respect? Almost all kills in the MA involve some element of picking/ganging/other unfairness. Planes nearly ALWAYS dive away to the deck and begin runnng/flopping/ack dragging/horde dragging if one gets in the saddle on them.  Even if both parties meet up in similar planes and have a desire to fight mano a mano to the finish, they will almost never be left alone. The only difference between a 500mph Pony busting in on your duel and the way Spits typically operate is that the Pony is easier to avoid. We can complain about these conditions, but that is the way it is and one might as well adapt. The hated bnz'ing tactic is actually a perfectly rational response to the chaotic, multi-bandit nature of MA combat, as opposed to committing to a turn fight with a particular bandit. Sure, the latter is fun, but the AHII Gods of (Mis)Fortune piss on you way too often when you try to have a nice 1v1 in the MA.

 The guy in the Tempest has at least had to pay some points to get his performance advantage, and is generally much easier to dodge than the La7. They HOer in the C-Hog at least had to pay for the airframe he's probably not going to land. What's a C-Hog but an ordinary Hog with great guns anyway? You're not going to survive a good hog pilot within 400 yards locked on your six anyway, so why get antsy over .50s v 20mm? (Perking the C-Hog and leaving the La7 free is absurd IMO.)

Runstangs? I'll tell you a story that will illustrate my feelings on the issue of engaging and disengaging. So there I was, flying the evil La7 one time at a base under attack...friendlies manning Las and Spixteens all around. Most attackers had been driven off. So this enemy pony comes in high, tries his hand a bit attacking the higher friendlies, then disengages before the horde can corner him. Some self-appointed wit on range had to say "Look at the Pony run"....made me want to laugh, and I said as much. Yeah, it sure was unsporting of that Pony to not fight all our La7s and Spixteens by himself on the deck...BS! . And yeah, I've had inexplicable incidents too, like Ponies running from my lone 190, an airplane you'd think they'd be eager to turn-fight...but I don't mind seeing that even, because it means the pilot is no threat and if I DO choose to run him down (and none of his buddies show up), that he will almost certainly  be meat on the table.

[1Boner]

You have a point about attack E2, but nothing fatal to my argument. The Temp might as well have been left out btw-because of its perk price and vulnerable radiator it will rarely be used as a jabo, unlike even the lightly perked C-Hog. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on how well various fighters do a bomber's job. Most jabo runs are suicide missions anyway, the performance of the bomb truck in dogfighting being almost irrelevant. For alot of people, this game IS  about fighting other airplanes only, and the deck, like it or not, is where its at. The La7 doesn't suck as an airplane even abit above its strongest altitude, and let's face it, performance above 20K is almost irrelevant in the MA. And of course, La7 can drag any fight to its best alt simply by diving.  Sure, if most MA action was at 30K, the P-47N and Ta-152 would deserve perking, and the La7 would be almost worthless. Such is not the case, performance from SL to 10K is the most important factor in the AHII MA. ENY doesn't control plane usage to any great extent, all it does as far as I can tell is annoy people on the more numerous side into changing arenas. And the ENY numbers themselves are bizarre, consider that a P-47N has the same ENY as an La7 or Spit16...huh?

It is irrelevant that the La7 is not the most used plane, popularity does not determine performance. The P-51 is the most popular ride in the game despite its many areas of mediocrity, the Ki-84 is under-used in relation to its ability, that doesn't mean the P-51 should be perked or that the Ki should have an ENY of 30.

The difference between the La7 and Spit16 btw, is that most LW fighters which cannot dog-fight the Spit16 on equal terms are at least a little bit faster.

If there is no reason to perk the La7, then there is no reason to perk the other rides IMO, except possibly the jets and rockets. The Tempest, C-Hog, Spit14, and F4U-4 aren't "magic", an unskilled pilot will in any of them can be beaten by an expert flying a P-40. So why perk 'em, why not just let people fly what they want?  

Are we done talking about "perking" the LA-7 now?

I think that argument can be found in countless other threads.



Thanks for your opinion though.


Boner

[BnZ]

Yes, but people advocating giving a perk price to the La7 in other threads failed to organize a logical case for such action and tended to enter into personal pissing matches with reactionaries on the other side of the issue. Sometimes the people who agree with you are more harm than help.

Are we done talking about "perking" the LA-7 now?

I think that argument can be found in countless other threads.



Thanks for your opinion though.


Boner