Author Topic: Arena caps are...  (Read 16795 times)

Offline 999000

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2008, 06:15:59 PM »
Hitech I don't have the answer...but I do know who does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm calling in Zazen!!!!!
<S>

Offline dedalos

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2008, 07:04:15 PM »
Why not have a third MA, maybe using some of the other maps that are already in the FSO or the Axis vs Allies make them avialbile to all the MA's that could thin out the herd a little and allow for more new players to come into the game. This is just a idea I had it might help everybody. :salute

Like the EWA and the MWA?  Not trying to be an arse but what is really the problem?  I mean, how often do you guys have a problem getting into an arena?  It happens to me once or twice a week but I can get my squadies to either move to where I am or I fly for a bit and check the numbers latter.  Really, how often do you guys encounter this issue?
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Babalonian

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2008, 07:08:53 PM »
Same questions apply.  What if both arenas are at 190?  Will you be willing to go the third that has 5 guys in it?

I think you're asking the question wrong then.  I think you're trying to get at: "How many back-up plans for the back-up plan does a squad need to pull off a successful in-game gathering?".

I'm trying to get my point across that anything more than one back-up plan for a plan gets hopelessly confuseing for something that is supposed to be entertaining (like a multiplayer game).
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Offline dedalos

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2008, 07:14:59 PM »
I think you're asking the question wrong then.  I think you're trying to get at: "How many back-up plans for the back-up plan does a squad need to pull off a successful in-game gathering?".

I'm trying to get my point across that anything more than one back-up plan for a plan gets hopelessly confuseing for something that is supposed to be entertaining (like a multiplayer game).

Bah, you are not answering the question.  With those numbers in the arenas you would have been worst off.  As I said above.  How often does it happen, how long does it last, and how many players are we talking about?

And really, what back up plan?  All it takes is a message to the CO telling him that the arena is full but there is room in the other.  If is just a game and for fun everyone could move where you are in seconds.  That does not happen only when score, rank, orders etc are involved
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #184 on: October 13, 2008, 07:23:19 PM »
I think you're asking the question wrong then.  I think you're trying to get at: "How many back-up plans for the back-up plan does a squad need to pull off a successful in-game gathering?".

I'm trying to get my point across that anything more than one back-up plan for a plan gets hopelessly confuseing for something that is supposed to be entertaining (like a multiplayer game).

Generally if I get a SAPP night going or the 80th is hunting, the plan is to go low numbers country, low numbers arena.  You help the cause two ways then.  The lower arena gets more birds in it, and the low team gets closer to even.

And you get to fly with your buds too.

It's really a simple plan, and easy to put into practice :)
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Offline uberslet

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #185 on: October 13, 2008, 08:35:59 PM »
Can someone explain to me again why they split the arenas? I seemed to have lost the post. It seems that running 1 big server would be cheaper than running 4 small servers. Just my opinion.
i think, dont quote me, it was due to the extreme numbers of subscribers over time, a single server for the MA couldnt handle it, so they split it to the EW,MW and 2 LW arenas to comprimise the increase of players. i think thats what skuzzy said, and im not readin this whole thread to look through
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #186 on: October 13, 2008, 09:07:41 PM »
i think, dont quote me, it was due to the extreme numbers of subscribers over time, a single server for the MA couldnt handle it, so they split it to the EW,MW and 2 LW arenas to comprimise the increase of players. i think thats what skuzzy said, and im not readin this whole thread to look through

wrong ! It was due to what HTC deems an unhealthy arena. The arenas stopped growing, so he split the arena to make more room to grow.

Offline Warspawn

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2008, 10:05:26 PM »
i think, dont quote me, it was due to the extreme numbers of subscribers over time, a single server for the MA couldnt handle it...

Nope.

Like the poster above, a HUGE arena..one server, much like Eve online, was working fine.  But...major whines ensued from having huge furballs and large arenas where you {gasp} had to actually fly for a bit to get to the enemy.

So the smaller, kinder, gentler arenas ensued.  You can now up and fight immediately, no planning required... (/sarcasm)

*edit* I like the small maps too, don't get me wrong.  And the small populations at times.  It just...doesn't feel like a huge war anymore.  Forgive me for my sins, but seeing the planning that was involved in big missions involving many players seemed to me like more *cough* healthy than the little fights and smaller arena caps where folks come in for 40minutes and bail...

*edit* and yeah, I understand HTC's game, his rules and all.  I just scratch my head when I see more peeps on Tuesday in one arena, than Wens-Thurs in the two LW combined.  If it's so "Unhealthy" you'd think that arena would be a ghost town.  But nope, quite the opposite.  Maybe there's some interest in a permanent "Big Dawg" arena with a large Population...

Hell, make the big arena a rolling plane set with all eras of the war involved.  Early, Mid, Late.  Let the team that wins vote to advance the arena to the next planeset, or leave it as it is. 

Who wouldn't LOVE to see an 800 person furball/fight with all early era warbirds?  Yummy!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 10:26:07 PM by Warspawn »
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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #188 on: October 13, 2008, 11:54:04 PM »
Did any of you folks even read Hitech's replies?

LOL you've all the the answers, but none of them are the same as his.  And he seemed clear on the reasons.
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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2008, 12:10:14 AM »
Did any of you folks even read Hitech's replies?

LOL you've all the the answers, but none of them are the same as his.  And he seemed clear on the reasons.

If you have a NEW idea that has been not tried before please post it and I would be happy to discuss it.

I read.  Maybe this is a new idea, maybe not...

I think max sqd # is 32.  why not allow squaddies to enter an arena that another squadie is already in?  Most squads do not have 32 flying at all times.  I usually don't have more than 5 squadies on at any one time.   

Sure, if every squad had 32 people on at all times the #'s might be significant enough for this to cause a problem, but if you look at the rosters most squads have less than 10 on most of the time.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2008, 12:10:44 AM »
Did any of you folks even read Hitech's replies?

LOL you've all the the answers, but none of them are the same as his.  And he seemed clear on the reasons.

I'm sure they read it but ignored it because it's not the answer they're looking for.  They will continue to whine and pout demanding HiTech change things and he'll post again saying "No" and they'll ignore it again and the cycle will repeat itself.


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Offline DMBEAR

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #191 on: October 14, 2008, 12:16:29 AM »
I'm sure they read it but ignored it because it's not the answer they're looking for.  They will continue to whine and pout demanding HiTech change things and he'll post again saying "No" and they'll ignore it again and the cycle will repeat itself.


ack-ack

Pouting, whining, demanding? Thought we were dicussing. 

Geez, you really know how to contribute to the issue.

Offline Zazen13

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #192 on: October 14, 2008, 12:23:46 AM »
I never understood or agreed with splitting arenas. It has been quite detrimental to community continuity. HT argues that AH subscribership was stagnant and this was a fundamental impetus for growth. There is also the contention that one arena was somehow more conducive to country numerical disparity. While I obviously don't have access to the type of hard data HTC does, I lived and played through it. My subjective observations don't indicate any correlation whatsoever, nor do I really see a substantial increase in the number of players online at any given time. The difference between 500+ in AHI and 700+ players in AHII during prime-time over the course of several years can hardly be contrued as proof positive of the irrefutable success of splitting the arenas. Perhaps without splitting them, we may have had 1500 players nightly? Perhaps splitting arenas squandered what might have otherwise been gained from the marketing effort.

HT is a programmer and no doubt understands the fundamental truth that to firmly establish the cause and effect relationship of a phenomena and the suspected catalyst you must observe them in hermetic isolation from any other potential causal factors. With regard to the split arenas, this was not the case. The arena split occurred in relative temporal proximity to a  target market focused marketing campaign, the release and rapid post-release tuning of AHII and the very aggressive implementation of the ENY limiter which was subsequentally watered down somewhat.

The paltry increase in players, mostly of the younger demographic, could more realistically be attributed to the simple fact that home computers of sufficient power to run an aging game like AH are relatively cheap now and in more homes than they were when AHI was cutting edge and they were prohibitively expensive, especially to the younger, non-hobbyists not so financially well endowed as the established niche customers.

What I see since the arenas were split is a lot of country stacking. A country, usually by virtue of a few large squadrons with dubious ulterior motives, will consciously stack one arena, usually to the point of the hard cap for the purpose of resetting it or farming it for captures/score/rank, etc. This is especially obvious earlier in a tour and since the scoring of the LW arenas was segregated from the EW & MW. I also see a lot of people forced to do things they don't find fun, play on maps they don't like, miss playing with friends or some combination of those just because of the arbitrary cap. I see many situations where the cap actually hurts arena balance. For example, Orange has 100 Bish/75 Knights/55 Rooks. I want to join it and fight for Rooks, but I can't because Bish have stacked it and capped it, so the arena cap prevents me from helping balance it..

In general I just can't see any possible way splitting the arenas improves community continuity or enjoyment of the game for anyone. The only reasonable reasons to do it is due to technological & hardware limitations server side or end-user side or very small playing areas where severe player density issues arise. The vague justification that split LW arenas is somehow some sort of "snake oil" for what ailed AH prior just doesn't bear the scrutiny of direct observation. Certainly, if there is some benefit not apparent to the customers, but visible on some spreadsheet at HTC HQ, it's far outweighed by the very blatant negative repercussions...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 02:03:12 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2008, 12:29:17 AM »
Sorry, I didn't have a chance to read this whole lengthy thread but did read HT's responses.

The only thing that gets me about the caps is when I'm FORCED to log into the arena that the Bish are already hoarding in.  Why can't I get into the arena where we need help?

I was in Blue tonight.  Rooks alone had a 2:1 advantage on us and Knights also had an advantage although not nearly so large.  I had more fun there than I have in a long time and isn't that what keeps your subscribers?

And please don't mistake this as a "balance the arenas" statement.  I'd just rather have some enemies to try to kill.  I can still find the places on the map where I won't get ganged too bad.

As to the old days of months at a time unbalanced arenas... big deal.  I just flew though them.  Did it in AW, did it here.  It always changed over time and the times where we were outnumbered were always some of the best.

Finally, while we have your attention HT, why can't you put only big maps in one arena and only small maps in the other (LW arenas)?
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Arena caps are...
« Reply #194 on: October 14, 2008, 12:53:51 AM »
The remedy is simple, remove your choice and not let you fly with an imbalance, because that is exactly what you are asking for.

In all honesty, you may as well go ahead and do that. Dancing around it with flawed, if well-meaning solutions is a waste of your valuable programming time better spent elsewhere in product development and is not improving your playerbases' enjoyment of this product...

Mull this over though... If players chose to cap out 500 people in one LW arena only going to the second when they were prohibited from entering the first, would a logical person not assume we did that because we actually enjoy higher player density? If player density was an issue that interfered with our individual fun would we not have populated the second arena that was available prior to cap'ing out the first?

Why not just give us freedom of choice and let us decide what we think is fun? You are trying to decide for us at what point player density hampers collective fun with arbitrary "hands-free" floating population caps. People can do all that for you with their feet automatically. You're effectively policing something that we do on our own naturally by virtue of individual hedonistic proclivities. You can't "program" human nature, but if you really work at it you can piss off people by programmatically interfering with their human nature.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:40:03 AM by Zazen13 »
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