The collision model SUCKS I hate it.

[moot]

Steve you're ticked off now that someone can ram you on your screen and not pay any penalty because they flew past cleanly on their end.  Would you be any less irritated if, out of the blue, you took damage for a ram that happened on someone else's end, but never came close on your screen?

[CAP1]

I wasn't, but you're right that was my fault. However, I believe my system is better, simply based on that if I hit something, it will be damaged as well as I. I think both partiesd should take damage if teh formula I suggested indicates there was a collision.  Otherwise, neither party takes damage.

i understand what you're trying to say, i REALLY do..........

but on the tempests computer you were probably still a couple hundred yards away. if he'd have taken damage from another aircraft that far away, he'd have been as pissed as you are right now.

 put yourself in the tempest.......taking damage from a diving pony that to YOUR view passed 200 yards behind you?
you suddenly get the XXX has collided with you message, and your elevator fsalls off.  is that fair/? would you not be screaming foul? i know i would......among others i think.......

[Donzo]

One thing about you proposal, Steve.  With your proposed "bubble", we would now have to not only avoid hitting other planes on our end but have to avoid them by some distance in order to not get a collision.  If we avoid but are still within the average distance you propose we would still get damage due to a collision.  Is this fair?

[CAP1]

So, from 4 aircraft and two pilots (  ) involved in mid air collision 1 got damaged? Now I get it 

nope.....only ONE pilot involved.......that is steve hitting his computers representation of the tempest. on the tempest pilots computer that collision never happened.....so only the ONE pilot in the collision takes damage.


 in a perfect world, steve would be right. this isn't a perfect world. it does however work fine though.

[Steve]

One thing about you proposal, Steve.  With your proposed "bubble", we would now have to not only avoid hitting other planes on our end but have to avoid them by some distance in order to not get a collision. 

This is incorrect. The bubble would only be queried if one FE  registered an actual collision of the planes proper.

[CAP1]

One thing about you proposal, Steve.  With your proposed "bubble", we would now have to not only avoid hitting other planes on our end but have to avoid them by some distance in order to not get a collision.  If we avoid but are still within the average distance you propose we would still get damage due to a collision.  Is this fair?

but what almost everyone seems to be missing is that there is nooooo need to be that close. i once dove a p40 at a set of buffs......i was anxious for the kill, and had never flown the p40 before(or since). i dove it like it was a spitfire or a p38. well, i got really close, waited waay too long to pull out....i rammed them and took my own wing off. i wnet down obvioulsy. wasn't anyones fault but my own.

 that seems almost the case that started this thread. steve was diving on a tempest, probably thinking ""easy kill"", the temp saw him, and tried to force an overshoot. on the temps screen, he was probably a couple hundred yards behind........steve hit him on his screen, and went in, the temp pilot was probably goin nuts looking around the sky for him.

but what if steve hadn't gotten so over-anxious/? what if he had controlled his speed better? he'd have been able to pull out or roll to the side, and maintain the temps 6 easily.

 no offense, but this is no ones fault but your own dude.......

in a 1-1 fight, maintain distance, and you're good to go....

BTW lusche.......great job on the films........

[2bighorn]

nope.....only ONE pilot involved.......

One pilot? So who's flying Tempest?

[CAP1]

One pilot? So who's flying Tempest?

the tempest pilot NEVER SAW THE COLLISION ON HIS MACHINE.

steve hit HIS COMPUTERS REPRENSETATION OF THE TEMPEST.

so there was only one pilot.

had both machines seen the collision, then they BOTH would have taken damage.

[Donzo]

See Rule #7

[2bighorn]

I'm really confused now.

the tempest pilot NEVER SAW THE COLLISION ON HIS MACHINE.

Did he die immediately in collision or what? I mean, when collision happens you hear sounds too. Isn't that enough evidence that collision happened? And why the pilot determines the collision? Shouldn't that be decided by game's code?

steve hit HIS COMPUTERS REPRENSETATION OF THE TEMPEST.

So it's faulty computer's fault after all and not Steve's. Why is he punished?

so there was only one pilot.

Who in the hell was piloting other three planes?

had both machines seen the collision, then they BOTH would have taken damage.

I don't quite get that part yet. So it doesn't really matter if Tempest pilot saw it, machine has to see it? Are we talking planes or computers now?

[Elfie]

You fail to understand collisions in AH and continue to insist on seeing them as you see real life traffic collisions, with an "at fault" person.  The sooner you disabuse yourself of this the sooner you'll understand why a great many of us not only don't revile the collision model, but agree whole heartedly with HiTech that it is the best possible solution given how the internet works.

Isn't that exactly what a *collision* is Karnak?

1. a violent crash between moving objects

That is a definition of the word collision. When we hear the term collision we think of things such as traffic accidents. How many traffic accidents have you seen where one car drives off unscathed? I'm sure it happens occasionally but much more often both vehicles see visible damage and in many cases both vehicles are completely destroyed.

I understand how/why the collision system in AH works the way it does. I used to hold Steve's view on the collision system as well, I hated it simply because there was no damage to both aircraft. (See collision definition) Then one day I realized that this collision model that we have now, would still work even if the internet got fast enough that we could see things in game in real time. In other words, if the internet got fast enough, when a collision happened in AH both players would see it and both would take damage.

[CAP1]

I'm really confused now.
Did he die immediately in collision or what? I mean, when collision happens you hear sounds too. Isn't that enough evidence that collision happened? And why the pilot determines the collision? Shouldn't that be decided by game's code?

So it's faulty computer's fault after all and not Steve's. Why is he punished?

Who in the hell was piloting other three planes?

I don't quite get that part yet. So it doesn't really matter if Tempest pilot saw it, machine has to see it? Are we talking planes or computers now?

you're a funny guy!!!

[CAP1]

I don't quite get that part yet. So it doesn't really matter if Tempest pilot saw it, machine has to see it? Are we talking planes or computers now?

the computers....at least from what i can understand of it,........

say for instance you're in the UK. you're fighting soneone that lives in texas.........your information will take longer to get to and from the host computers than mine will. because of this, we'll never ever see the exact same thing.

i think

[E25280]

I'm really confused now.
Did he die immediately in collision or what? I mean, when collision happens you hear sounds too. Isn't that enough evidence that collision happened? And why the pilot determines the collision? Shouldn't that be decided by game's code?

So it's faulty computer's fault after all and not Steve's. Why is he punished?

Who in the hell was piloting other three planes?

I don't quite get that part yet. So it doesn't really matter if Tempest pilot saw it, machine has to see it? Are we talking planes or computers now?

Watch Lusche's film.  It shows how the two realities viewed the situation.  One of the trailing planes collided (happened to be in Lusche's reality).  The other trailing plane did not intersect the leading plane (the leading plane's reality), and therefore the leading plane did not suffer a collision.  It is very clear.

[Elfie]

the computers....at least from what i can understand of it,........

say for instance you're in the UK. you're fighting soneone that lives in texas.........your information will take longer to get to and from the host computers than mine will. because of this, we'll never ever see the exact same thing.

i think

That is true. But get this.....when I used to play two different characters in EverQuest at the same time, each character on a separate computer, but both computers on the same connection and sitting right next to each other....there was a visible difference in the time each computer saw and displayed the same events.