I hate stick stirrers

[Bear76]

Stick stirring, I refer to that as "Having a Stroke" flying 

[ink]

i was accused of "stick stirring" when i was engaged with a crap load of cons 5+ cant quite remember, point is they couldn't shoot me down, so of course i was "stick stirring"

whats funny is, on my return trip the same guy that was runnin his yap,  hunts me down in my Hurri, we spot each other i have about a 1k Alt advantage, he types something like "come for your schooling?" i de-throttle and nose over, he climbs up,i drop down  neither of us  go for the Ho but, in about 15 seconds, he exploded quite nicely.  

give me a schooling? i <S> him but got no response  

[kvuo75]

negative G is stick stirring.

[soupcan]

negative G is stick stirring.

Nose down is stick stirring? pffffff
Surely you jest.

[mensa180]

Anything that isn't flying straight and level, and causes me to miss the shot, is stick stirring.

[8313jbx]

cant stand the bastages

[Chalenge]

This guy is not stick stirring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCZnQP6Yw-0

[Ack-Ack]

Anything that isn't flying straight and level, and causes me to miss the shot, is stick stirring.

It's your lazy eye that makes it look like their stick stirring.


ack-ack

[BnZ]

I will stand by my statement that it is rapid oscillations in the pitch, mostly utilized with only minor roll inputs, which make for truly annoying stick stirring. Especially considering that rapidly alternating positive and negative G loads can be induced without pain. In contrast, a rapid flat scissors by a quick rolling plane, keeping the Gs positive, is not as frustrating to counter and hit, and more importantly, is not as physically dubious as the "porpoising" act. Thus both the 190 and Spit16 are getting a bad rap here for something I've seen every plane do effectively.

I latched onto a Tempest last night in a Dora9. Horrible roll rate, but the pilot stick stirred it, and as I say, the pitch axis is the important one. Took the rest of my cannon to shoot down the bugger, unfortunately. Humorous part-Tempest vs. 190, he could have turned right, he could have turned left, could have split-s'ed, could have looped,could have WEPed and dived...all would have been a better solution for defeating the gun solution of a 190 than simply twitching about in front of a plane with cannons to burn.

No dedicated 190D9 pilot can.  That is why they are dedicated to the D9.  They just blame the plane for it and call yours easy mode 

Key Word = Dedicated

Sir, it IS possible at least occasionally to use intelligent ACM and a thrust-to-weight advantage to counter a maneuverability advantage on the part of the opposition...

[SlapShot]

I will stand by my statement that it is rapid oscillations in the pitch, mostly utilized with only minor roll inputs, which make for truly annoying stick stirring. Especially considering that rapidly alternating positive and negative G loads can be induced without pain. In contrast, a rapid flat scissors by a quick rolling plane, keeping the Gs positive, is not as frustrating to counter and hit, and more importantly, is not as physically dubious as the "porpoising" act. Thus both the 190 and Spit16 are getting a bad rap here for something I've seen every plane do effectively.

You have described it perfectly ... most that use the "land trout" defense, would have gone blind as a result of their maneuvers.

The 190 gets the bad rap due to the fact that there are very few that really know how to fight in the 190 and only know the "pick and run" strategy. Once cornered, to where they can't use the "run" part of their strategy, they have exhausted their BFM/ACM knowledge and need to rely on the "land trout" defense.

[dedalos]

Some years back, in AH1, it was possible to create this effect in a 190 by rapidly moving your stick around.  HTC fixed it a LONG time ago, but the legend remains, and people are still accused of "stick-stirring."  As BnZ says, what you're actually seeing is a result of your target's bad connection, not a deliberate misuse of weak coding.

- oldman (see also "Cable Pulling")

Hey, do you want to see the legend in action?  Stop in the DA and go in the cherry pick lake.  Find a 190 and get on his 6 (if you can catch him).  Turn film on and injoy

[dedalos]

Sir, it IS possible at least occasionally to use intelligent ACM and a thrust-to-weight advantage to counter a maneuverability advantage on the part of the opposition...

True.  Just saying that most 190s I encounter will make a pass or two and they are out of there.  The excuse is always that the plane makes them fly that way.

[Rich46yo]

Ive seen 190s flown very well. Most of all A5s but I even saw a guy fly a 152 very well down low. The few times Ive flown them they struck me as Jug-like in their roll rate, I think it was the D-9 we took up, and it felt very responsive, built speed quickly, and kept speed up quickly. It struck me as a "slasher" like a lot of the Yank plane set I normally spend almost all my time in.

And 90% of the times I see 190s lately its, "See FW-run90, see run-90 HO, see run-90 run, see run-90". Which is kinda a shame and kinda makes me think a lot of the talent has left that fighter and gone on to other airplanes. I seem to see a lot more talent in 109s now then 190s.

Maybe I'll spend a little time in it in the future. A "stick stirrer" is pretty obvious. If theres ever a question about it just go into the TA, turn film on, and then jerk the stick in every which way that would be impossable in real life. I'd rather learn legitamate tactics to shake a con off my 6, and learn lessons if I get shot down. Lately Ive had a lot of luck pointing into the sun and bringing it right to stall.

What kinda skills are you learning by shaking your stick all over the place?

[BnZ]

"See FW-run90, see run-90 HO, see run-90 run, see run-90".

Ironic, because the Dora9 is quite possibly the worst plane to HO in imaginable. That radiator goes out if you look at it.

190s lack of turn capacity is a huge handicap, I won't lie. But yeah, it is possible to do SOMETHING in them if the opponent is willing to fight you at ~300mph IAS or beyond, where the 190 maneuvers as well or better than most.

Running-I'll run if I HAVE to. Its not having to run that is the goal though.

[Slamfire]

At what point does a last ditch violent "out of plane" desperation jink maneuver or intentional stall become a "stick stir" ?

BTW it was a valid and often used last ditch maneuver in WWII - with surviving pilots coming back home seriously wounded from the G-Forces.

I personally don't have a problem with it - I shoot down the middle and usually kill the bastage, however it will kill your accuracy % score, so I suppose it upsets the scoreadonnas.

Maybe if people complain loud enough, HTC can model it so that stick stirring gives a pilot wound (G Force damage to the body).  I wouldn't care either way.