Hiding the Lockheed plant during WWII

[Anaxogoras]

If you're ever in the San Diego area, take a cruise to Pt. Loma and Cabrillo Point.  Look at all the shore battery emplacements that are pointing towards the Pacific, I'm sure you think those were placed and manned solely for morale and not to actually defend our coast from enemy attack.

Same thing in San Francisco on the north side of the Golden Gate bridge.

[Ack-Ack]

Still not able to read? The units are there, plain as day. That you do not see them speaks volumes as to both your ignorance and your arrogance. Once again, I posted 0.030", which is thirty thousandths of an inch. See, the symbol " is the correct symbol for inches as given on blueprints. Since you apparently can neither read nor spell, is a picture required? If so, get someone to post one for you.

Honestly, why waste your time with this tool?  You can tell what his intelligence level by his signature.


ack-ack

[Rollins]

Honestly, why waste your time with this tool?  You can tell what his intelligence level by his signature.


ack-ack

 

Trolls like living under bridges because of the shade.

[Schlowy]

So at best, there was a P-38 built every 3 hours, not one every few minutes.

Dude, USA was producing fiters in less than 1min. <--- i said fiter, not p38 only.

Ack Ack

There was a real fear of attack on the West Coast by the Japanese.  To deny there wasn't a fear is just denying the historical facts.

I'm not silly, you '1 bomb at each usa factory wins the war' crowd are.

Summed up, JAPAN DID NOT TAKE Pearl Harbor, they ONLY bombed it.
TRUE FEAR WOULD BE IF THEY ACTUALLY TOOK IT.

Four months later we bombed Doolittles Raiders DID BOMB Japan.
Day after pearl harbor I bet the beaches were still full with peolpe SWIMMING AT THE BEACHES next to those cannons and up and down the whole west Coast, well maybe not, it was DECEMBER LoL. The beaches were NOT LAND MINED LOL.

About my sig, if the BoB is proof the spitty was better, then the Battle of Dieppe is proof the 109 was better.



To save you the time of reading the whole thread...
TWO POSTS I PUT FROM EARLIER IN THE THREAD.
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Within days of pearl harbor:
Somewhere in USA, 6th graders in a school classroom, teacher pulls down a world map, points, and says 'this is japan'...
The 6thgraders' response was "that little place attacked us?"
LOL
Nobody was skeerd.

summed up: USA wasn't skeerd, they were.

They failed:
1) Had Japan actually taken Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), maybe USA peeps would have been nervous, but even with their 'sneak attack,' they couldn't take it. USA wasn't skeerd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
2) USA carriers weren't in Pearl Harbor, even Yamamoto said  "I FEAR all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." A few hours after they started it, Japan was skeerd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto%27s_sleeping_giant_quote

They got pwnt:
3) Only 12 days after Pearl Harbor: Flying Tigers, USA pilots in USA planes, P40s, are kicking Japan arse on thier side of the world. USA airpower was 'over there' before pearl harbor - Japan's attack wasn't so secret.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_tigers
4) Only 4 months after Pearl Harbor: April 42, "Doolittles Raiders" - USA did bomb mainland Japan, from a USA carrier group on a one way flight over Japan to China. Japan's skeerd reality was falling on their heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid

(May of 42, USA stops Japan from invading Austrailia, 'Battle of Coral Sea.")

5) Only 6 months after Pearl Harbor: June 42, "Battle of Midway,"  - Japan's 'failure of an offensive force' is sank when they tried to take a teeny tiny island, Midway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
6) Only 8 months after Pearl Harbor, August 42, Guadalcanal Campaign - USA's takes a Japan occupied island, the path of 'Island hopping' to Japan's mainland is in motion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_Campaign

pwnt, sooo sowwy

[Murdr]

Check the ROC mr Murdr. You are not a mod, you are 'backseat' modding when you say i'm going to get banned.

Kind of telling isn't it?  I didn't post any names, you must have a guilty conscience.

[Serenity]

Dude, USA was producing fiters in less than 1min. <--- i said fiter, not p38 only.

Ack Ack
I'm not silly, you '1 bomb at each usa factory wins the war' crowd are.

Summed up, JAPAN DID NOT TAKE Pearl Harbor, they ONLY bombed it.
TRUE FEAR WOULD BE IF THEY ACTUALLY TOOK IT.

Four months later we bombed Doolittles Raiders DID BOMB Japan.
Day after pearl harbor I bet the beaches were still full with peolpe SWIMMING AT THE BEACHES next to those cannons and up and down the whole west Coast, well maybe not, it was DECEMBER LoL. The beaches were NOT LAND MINED LOL.

About my sig, if the BoB is proof the spitty was better, then the Battle of Dieppe is proof the 109 was better.



To save you the time of reading the whole thread...
TWO POSTS I PUT FROM EARLIER IN THE THREAD.
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Within days of pearl harbor:
Somewhere in USA, 6th graders in a school classroom, teacher pulls down a world map, points, and says 'this is japan'...
The 6thgraders' response was "that little place attacked us?"
LOL
Nobody was skeerd.

summed up: USA wasn't skeerd, they were.

They failed:
1) Had Japan actually taken Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), maybe USA peeps would have been nervous, but even with their 'sneak attack,' they couldn't take it. USA wasn't skeerd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
2) USA carriers weren't in Pearl Harbor, even Yamamoto said  "I FEAR all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." A few hours after they started it, Japan was skeerd.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto%27s_sleeping_giant_quote

They got pwnt:
3) Only 12 days after Pearl Harbor: Flying Tigers, USA pilots in USA planes, P40s, are kicking Japan arse on thier side of the world. USA airpower was 'over there' before pearl harbor - Japan's attack wasn't so secret.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_tigers
4) Only 4 months after Pearl Harbor: April 42, "Doolittles Raiders" - USA did bomb mainland Japan, from a USA carrier group on a one way flight over Japan to China. Japan's skeerd reality was falling on their heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid

(May of 42, USA stops Japan from invading Austrailia, 'Battle of Coral Sea.")

5) Only 6 months after Pearl Harbor: June 42, "Battle of Midway,"  - Japan's 'failure of an offensive force' is sank when they tried to take a teeny tiny island, Midway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
6) Only 8 months after Pearl Harbor, August 42, Guadalcanal Campaign - USA's takes a Japan occupied island, the path of 'Island hopping' to Japan's mainland is in motion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_Campaign

pwnt, sooo sowwy

Schlowy, my turn to speak of the fear. I live in Hawaii. I can see Pearl Harbor from my back door. Back when Pearl Harbor was first bombed, we were terrified. Blackouts were enforced for everyone. NO ONE was swimming at beaches because we were finding Midget Submarines and Land Mines that were comming ashore with Japanese markings on them. The island of Ni'ihau, a privately owned island, was considered to be in such a great risk of being invaded and occupied, the ENTIRE ISLAND, from ONE END TO THE OTHER was ploughed. They dug DEEP ditches so no aircraft could land. The submerged cars, metal parts, and any object they could find in both natural and artificial harbors to make a shore-landing more difficult. Internment camps were created and EVERYONE of Japanese ancestry was forced into these camps while MARSHALL LAW was declared. We were truly afraid we would be invaded. And if you would care to deny any of this evidence, I can walk out onto my street and innocent men and women who suffered in those camps. Soldiers who manned the guns and enforced the blackouts. Pictures of Ni'ihau ploughed over and booby trapped to "keep the Japs out". We were genuinely afraid.

[Ack-Ack]

Dude, USA was producing fiters in less than 1min. <--- i said fiter, not p38 only.

Ack Ack
I'm not silly, you '1 bomb at each usa factory wins the war' crowd are.

Summed up, JAPAN DID NOT TAKE Pearl Harbor, they ONLY bombed it.
TRUE FEAR WOULD BE IF THEY ACTUALLY TOOK IT.

Four months later we bombed Doolittles Raiders DID BOMB Japan.
Day after pearl harbor I bet the beaches were still full with peolpe SWIMMING AT THE BEACHES next to those cannons and up and down the whole west Coast, well maybe not, it was DECEMBER LoL. The beaches were NOT LAND MINED LOL.

About my sig, if the BoB is proof the spitty was better, then the Battle of Dieppe is proof the 109 was better.

A day after Pearl Harbor, most of the island was still under curfew because they believed that there was going to be an imminent Japanese invasion.  All beaches were closed and both the US Army and Marines set up defensive positions on all beaches were Japanese naval infantry were expected to land.  All civilian vehicle traffic was forbidden, the entire fishing fleet was forbidden to leave the docks and a mandatory blackout from dusk to dawn.  All civilian airfields were taken over by the army and all civilian planes grounded and martial law was declared.  Residents were fingerprinted and identification cards issued, which had to be carried at all times. Residents and businesses could not hold more than $200 in cash.  Japanese owned businesses were shut down. Local police, FBI and Army arrested many residents who were considered dangerous

Read your history books and find out what happened to the first group of US Navy fighters that arrived at Pearl shortly after the attack.  Hint:  Not all of them landed.

Read the story of the Battle of Los Angeles and then try and tell me that fear of a Japanese attack wasn't present.

If there was no fear of Japanese attack or 5th Columnist sabotage on the West Coast, why were the Japanese in this country sent to internment camps?  

No, the Battle of Dieppe did not prove the bf109 was any better than the Spitfire, just like the Battle of Britain didn't prove the Spitfire was any better than the Bf 109.  You should try reading about the aerial battle that took place over Dieppe and you'll understand why the RAF was not able to achieve tactical aerial superiority over the battle field.  Here's another hint:  The RAF fighters faced the same issues over Dieppe that the Luftwaffe fighters faced over England during the Battle of Britain.  If you know that answer then you'll understand why the RAF couldn't acheive tactical aerial superority over the beaches of Dieppe.


ack-ack

[Golfer]

Serenity you have some pretty fair writing skills and I'm sure a drive to better yourself.  With that I'll offer this advice:

Try writing in the third person.  Not only will it be how you'll write a science report but it will also help alleviate confusion amongst the members of the board who might get the idea that you're a reincarnated Japanese resident of 1941 Hawaii.

[Schlowy]

Again, its not like the Japanese actually TOOK the island, nor did they sink the carriers. Most of the fear was probly the usa goverment just hoping to motivate its people - wake the sleeping giant.' Japan couldn't invade the tiniest island of the Alaskan chain up there.

Serenity, ok, defensive measures were implemented; but, anyone with a brain knows that the Japs best chance of taking the island was the day that they sneak attacked it. Every hour that passed, the fear factor probly dropped by half. Kinda like 911, planes were grounded... for a few days.

AckAck, same answer really as above... but for how long? I can see that the fields of Ni'ihau were ploughed probly for the whole war, just incase, but how long were the 'no fishing boats' rule enforced? Some of that stuff was precautionary, 'were at war so we should do this or that' which is totally different from 'we might be invaded, we should mine the whole west coast'.

[Karnak]

They aren't talking about what happened, but rather about what people at the time were afraid would happen.

Imagine what your average civilian thought would happen if a few Japanese BBs decided to lay off the coast and bombard San Francisco or San Diego?  What do you think 14", 16" or 18.1" shells would do?  I've been out to the fortifications on the Marin headlands many times.  A Nagato or Yamato class BB would have dealt with them easily.

The fact that the Japanese wouldn't put such ships and tankers used to get them there at such risk would have been meaningless and unknowable to most civilians.  Talking to my grandma I know how people saw things.  She still believes that there were arrows cut into the cane fields in Hawaii to show the pilots the way to Pearl.  She got angry at me when I told her that proved to be a myth.

[Schlowy]

Well thats just it, we have mindsets contaminated by knowledge of the future, they didn't, agreed. But because of this, you can't say they were, nor weren't or to what degree - Skeerd as in storing food in the woods or only cleaning and loading the riffles and shotgun? Granny is one peep.

Lets look at modern times, 9/11:
I thought the arabs were pathetic, and I was angry, but I wasn't skeerd. Within a few days, air travel was back to normal. Bin-Laden blew up 2 buildings in NYC, HE DIDN'T INVADE it. Had the Arabs actually had forces on the ground and flying an Arab flag off the top if the WTC, THEN it would've been a different story?
Same same!

[Chalenge]

Fifteen days after the attack on Pearl Life magazine ran an article designed to bolster courage of the public and offer suggestions if attacked. Also in the same issue were suggestions on how to properly identify Japanese aircraft.

"If you see the full underside silhouette, a bomb may hit near you in the next split second. If you see the full front view, you should throw yourself on the ground against possible machine-gun fire"

Also included were (rascist) suggestions on how to tell Chinese from Japanese and this also fostered brutal action by condoning and encouraging racial hostility.

America is the melting pot of all nations within one and for this to have happened here proves there was indeed fear. That you deny it as adamantly as you do suggests a great deal of immaturity and ignorance both in my opinion.

[Serenity]

Serenity you have some pretty fair writing skills and I'm sure a drive to better yourself.  With that I'll offer this advice:

Try writing in the third person.  Not only will it be how you'll write a science report but it will also help alleviate confusion amongst the members of the board who might get the idea that you're a reincarnated Japanese resident of 1941 Hawaii.

I used terms like "we were terrified" to mean "we" the united states. I didn't think there would be confusion, but thank you for pointing it out. I will make a point of avoiding such confusing statements next time around.

[Angus]

Make a detailed comparison of P-38 production, from start to finish, to the production of German fighters. It is like daylight and dark.

Not the same graph now is it. My point was the German "jump" of production numbers in 1944. I do not have data on P-38 production numbers, but I'd be happy to see...both
Late war German aircraft did get referred to as crudely built BTW, and that even applied to the 262...

[GtoRA2]

I used terms like "we were terrified" to mean "we" the united states. I didn't think there would be confusion, but thank you for pointing it out. I will make a point of avoiding such confusing statements next time around.

He is right.